The War on Britain's Roads

[Geriatrix]

Another point - I would never, ever, wilfully touch another vehicle whilst cycling. Except as a last-ditch life-saving measure - e.g. to fend myself off from a collision! Courtesy counts for a lot in good road sense. And thumping a car roof with a gloved hand is a good precursor to fisticuffs....

I agree with you although I have done it myself . It remains a valid point that any vehicle that passes close enough to allow you to do that is too close, but I'll admit, I'm not sure if the act of thumping the roof or side if the vehicle has any benefit in correcting driver behaviour, and may make it worse.

No but it's the only recourse when being driven into the curb at 20mph,which is what happened to me,when the driver stopped,without warning he came at me with fists at the ready,I hit him with the bike in self defence,which again was my only recourse in the circumstanes.I was not thinking about anything else but my own safety.

My situation wasn't as extreme, but it did have positive outcome.

I banged on the side of a prius who reacted by swerving in front of me. I unfortunately don't react well to provocation so I chased him down & prevented him from moving off at the next traffic lights by stopping in front of him.

A police patrol car approaching from the opposite direction stopped and pulled us both over. They separated us by earshot & each gave an account of the incident to a different copper. I told them exactly what happened, pointing out that a vehicle that passes close enough for me to thump is too close. The driver corroborated my story, believing that my actions would evoke sympathy and justify his own behaviour.

Both coppers happened to be cyclists.

They politely explained the highway code to the driver and then asked me if I had anything to tell him. Which I did - politely but a bit more firmly than the coppers.

[ukdodger]

Watched the proggy glumly last night but could not bring myself to turn it off. Seen some of it on YouTube before. Suffered countless similar near ones myself but escaped actual collisions for 50+ years. But what I had not seen before was the appalling courier cycle 'race' through crowded streets towards the end of the film. That was frighteningly lacking in imagination on the part of the perpetrators and truly shameful; the worst possible ambassadors for cycling. Those guys should be locked up.

Yes that was the part that I found most shocking. I never knew it happened. Lock them up and trash their bikes. This morning's R4 commented that cyclists should hold their ground on the road and not take to cycling close to the kerb to avoid vehicles (supposedly safer than hugging the kerb). I wonder if that chap commutes. Personally I am not going to baulk a lorry with a twenty year old something to prove driver a cabbie practising road ballet to grab a fare or a van driver with a schedule to keep.

The only and simple answer is fewer road users. That's at the heart of the problem. The country is overcrowded.

[Geriatrix]

I havent seen the program but I did hear the chat on Radio4's breakfast news. The one "commentator" brought in to be against cyclists, said that it was "male gladiators" who go out looking for trouble. She was able to justify this by the way they get dressed up in helmets and lycra*.

Yes I heard that as well. The anti cyclist guest was Jan Etherington (reponsible for this piece of bigotry http://tinyurl.com/cvb54dp).

I didn't get the name of the cyclist guest who gave more measured responses. (In case anyone thinks I'm simply taking the cyclists side, his views echoed the opinions of Edmund King, president of the AA).

[reohn2]

My situation wasn't as extreme, but it did have positive outcome.

I banged on the side of a prius who reacted by swerving in front of me. I unfortunately don't react well to provocation so I chased him down & prevented him from moving off at the next traffic lights by stopping in front of him.

A police patrol car approaching from the opposite direction stopped and pulled us both over. They separated us by earshot & each gave an account of the incident to a different copper. I told them exactly what happened, pointing out that a vehicle that passes close enough for me to thump is too close. The driver corroborated my story, believing that my actions would evoke sympathy and justify his own behaviour.

Both coppers happened to be cyclists.

They politely explained the highway code to the driver and then asked me if I had anything to tell him. Which I did - politely but a bit more firmly than the coppers.

I wish I could tell the same positive story.
We,on the tandem,were passed very close on a wide and straight road(so it was deliberate) by a Mondeo,I remonstrated by making a move over gesture,he waited in side road further on.I stopped 10m from him and asked if he was going to do it again he said yes,this time I whacked the side of the door as he passed,he stopped.
I went around him and parked across his bow,on approaching the vehicle noticed he had two young children aged about 5 and 7 in the car with him,I said to him through an inch of open window "What doing you think you're doing",he ranted like a man posessed and kept repeating "YOU CAN'T TELL ME ANYTHING" over and over.At that point a police car happened along and I explained what had happened with Mrs R2 explaining also.
The police told me,now get this I could've been arrested if I'd damaged his car,I ask the police officer to put the cuffs on,he declined.
That is what we're up against.

[Mark1978]

It does seem in any situation like that, the victim must always be 100% blameless for it to be taken seriously. If the victim is to as much as swear the perpetrator then they are seen as somehow being just as much at fault.

[kwackers]

The police told me,now get this I could've been arrested if I'd damaged his car,I ask the police officer to put the cuffs on,he declined.

Shocking isn't it.
You can get knocked off by an outrightly agressive driver (in my case a bus) damage the bike and the police aren't interested because there is no injury, it becomes a case of "sort it out with their insurer".

But use your hand against an aggressive driver's vehicle to fend them off/alert them and suddenly it's serious...

What a load of bulls testicles.

[robert_obrien]

We need a public poster campaign to tell everyone what's what.
'To be safe cyclists should ride well away from the kerb'
'85% of cyclists are car owners'
'Vehicle excise duty does not pay for roads'

and if you have video footage of an incident the police should be committed to following it up and convicting. You should not need to be chasing motorists and having altercations. It's unwise to criticise anyone's driving. Try it with your partner and see what reaction you get.

[Simon L6]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fe ... 682580.ece

from a surprising source........Cynthia Barlow was on the case of construction traffic deaths while the LCC were busy looking the other way.

[Geriatrix]

This morning's R4 commented that cyclists should hold their ground on the road and not take to cycling close to the kerb to avoid vehicles (supposedly safer than hugging the kerb). I wonder if that chap commutes.

I have to disagree.

As mentioned in a previous post, I didn't get the name of the cyclist but he merely reflected the road positioning practice recommended in John Franklin's book "cyclecraft", and what is taught in DfT's Bikeability training. His responses were balanced and in line with best practice.

His comments on the greater vulnerability of female cyclists comes from a study done by TfL which investigated why female cyclists suffer from proportionately higher fatalities than male cyclists.

[ukdodger]

This morning's R4 commented that cyclists should hold their ground on the road and not take to cycling close to the kerb to avoid vehicles (supposedly safer than hugging the kerb). I wonder if that chap commutes.

I have to disagree.

As mentioned in a previous post, I didn't get the name of the cyclist but he merely reflected the road positioning practice recommended in John Franklin's book "cyclecraft", and what is taught in DfT's Bikeability training. His responses were balanced and in line with best practice.

His comments on the greater vulnerability of female cyclists comes from a study done by TfL which investigated why female cyclists suffer from proportionately higher fatalities than male cyclists.

Why do they?

[axel_knutt]

We,on the tandem,were passed very close on a wide and straight road(so it was deliberate)

......and then there are the ones who honk the horn as well just to startle you even more. Or spit on you. I've even been squirted with water from a passing car out of a cyclists water bottle!

I think I'll go and look at what comments this program has got on a non cycling forum. Should be interesting.......

[kurisu]

The most disappointing things:
- No expert commentary (from the Police, DfT, J Franklin...)
This left personal opinions stated and left uncontested, noone was informed whether the taxi getting close enough to touch was too close

Indeed, and there was no discussion of why cyclists need that extra space. Perhaps if drivers realised that it's not just about cyclists' comfort, and that we need to be able to swerve to avoid potholes, drain covers, broken glass, or even get blown by gusts of wind, then they'd be more inclined to leave more space. Allowing the driver's "I didn't hit you" retort to go unchallenged was not good enough.

[Geriatrix]

This morning's R4 commented that cyclists should hold their ground on the road and not take to cycling close to the kerb to avoid vehicles (supposedly safer than hugging the kerb). I wonder if that chap commutes.

I have to disagree.

As mentioned in a previous post, I didn't get the name of the cyclist but he merely reflected the road positioning practice recommended in John Franklin's book "cyclecraft", and what is taught in DfT's Bikeability training. His responses were balanced and in line with best practice.

His comments on the greater vulnerability of female cyclists comes from a study done by TfL which investigated why female cyclists suffer from proportionately higher fatalities than male cyclists.

Why do they?

Because of poor road positioning. Female cyclists are not as assertive as male cyclists & are more likely to hug the kerb. If you have a "don't mind me I'm not really here" attitude, motorists do exactly that. They don't.

What makes women better drivers than men - greater patience and more considerations - unfortunately puts them at greater risk as cyclists. That was the conclusion of the TfL study.

[ukdodger]

We,on the tandem,were passed very close on a wide and straight road(so it was deliberate)

......and then there are the ones who honk the horn as well just to startle you even more. Or spit on you. I've even been squirted with water from a passing car out of a cyclists water bottle!

I think I'll go and look at what comments this program has got on a non cycling forum. Should be interesting.......

Yes it would. Hopefully some of them will be reading this too. I've had a milk shake thrown over me, a hamburger box thrown at me, and that hardy perennial being shouted loudly at by a yobbo in the passenger seat just to startle you. That's apart from being cut up and shouted at on a regular basis. I was a car driver and motocyclist for fifty years (given up both now) and a dedicated cyclist for the last fifteen. As a cyclist I've had more road abuse in those fifteen than I ever had in the years driving and motorcycling.

[meic]

I am not sure that it was really too much about cycling or even roads. A lot of it just had me thinking it is a war in British cities.
Lack of law enforcement and a unchecked tendency to violence and bullying which you see much less of outside of cities or the UK even.

There do seem to be clear bones of contention about interpretation of the law which could resolve a lot of the conflicts before they arise.

For example where the Police Officer dealt with the red cab being slapped by the cyclist. Both parties left feeling that they were in the right and justified in their behaviour, the Police officer just wanted the problem to "go away" without resolution.

So long as road users have a different interpretation of what is correct and legal in passing each other on the road then the conflict will continue.
We consistently convince ourselves on this forum that passing with only 6" to spare is not "allowed" but as far as Police action is concerned it is considered 100% legitimate and a cyclist who strikes a car is the criminal. Much as we may think a 1m passing rule is inadequate, it would clarify the issue in road users minds, instead we have two groups living by different sets of road law interpretation side by side, causing conflict.
The same sort of problem exists for cyclists who overtake on the inside (not in other lanes).