Cyclist-HGV incidents

julianemre · Post by **julianemre** » 14 Oct 2008, 1:45pm

Hi guys, I'm a bicycle courier in London, a road cyclist, a touring cyclist, and love just about anything to do with bikes in general.

I'm currently working for a TV production company hoping to make a documentary for the BBC about cyclists being hit by HGVs. Panorama are interested in the programme, however, before they agree to fund it, they want to know that it is a nationwide issue, and not just something that happens (all too much) in London.

I'm calling round CTC groups, and researching in local media and other cycling forums, but if anybody is aware of an incident between a cyclist and an HGV in their local area, or perhaps knows cyclists elsewhere in the country that might know something, I'd be very grateful if you posted any leads, I'm happy to chase them up myself.

Just to reassure any sceptics, this programme is not to sensationalise the roads as a dangerous place that cyclists should be afraid of, it is to raise awareness of a dangerous issue, and thereby, hopefully, get something done about it.

Thanks in advance

meic · Post by **meic** » 14 Oct 2008, 2:31pm

Does there have to be an injury or death?

It is an issue in rural areas too. When I leave my house I go up a 1 mile long fairly steep hill with no patches straight enough to overtake.
HGVs will either overtake without losing their valuable momentum or will slow down to my speed then try and overtake up a steep hill. Either way when something comes the other way you can guess who normally has to leave the road.
Also they will overtake with a small speed differential and start to pull in as soon as the cab is past you.
You could get some excellent film footage from a camera mounted on a bike. I am an ex-motorcycle courier not a novice cyclist who scares easily

In the countryside the issue with HGVs is that they overtake when there is not enough room. It is the norm to be shaved off by them and sometimes they go a bit too far. I could nominate at least 3HGVs in my area who would give some entertaining footage if you could secretly film them.

thirdcrank · Post by **thirdcrank** » 14 Oct 2008, 2:52pm

meic wrote:start to pull in as soon as the cab is past you.

That says it for me and it can apply equally to buses. And if the cyclist does not then immediately slow down or stop it's all their fault. The experienced professional driver and the lunatic space invader left lying in the road.

I would not suggest that this was all drivers of big vehicles or most but 1 in 100 is more than enough. Before we get all the diagrams trotted out of restricted views in mirrors, the time for that to be remembered is before the overtaking manouevre is started, not, as meic says, as soon as the cab has gone by - when the cyclist is out of view and out of mind.

julianemre · Post by **julianemre** » 14 Oct 2008, 2:57pm

It doesn't have to be a death or injury to be valid, hopefully the documentary will be made and the things you mention will be raised, in the meantime, however, Panorama want to see some particular 'newsworthy' cases before they put money this way.

lauriematt · Post by **lauriematt** » 14 Oct 2008, 4:33pm

where i live in shropshire ive never come across a problem with any HGVs or buses....

the odd white van man gives me grief...but not too often

it seems mainly your average joe in a car that drives like a pillo@k

Post by **Mick F** » 14 Oct 2008, 4:44pm

lauriematt wrote:where i live in shropshire ive never come across a problem with any HGVs or buses....

the odd white van man gives me grief...but not too often

it seems mainly your average joe in a car that drives like a pillo@k

Down here too.
Not had a problem (yet) with HGVs or busses.

highrider · Post by **highrider** » 14 Oct 2008, 4:44pm

Hi,

A few years ago now, but the brother of an old friend was hit on the back of his head by the wing mirror of a passing lorry. He ended up in a coma for some time before dying. It was an open road with no extenuating circumstances as I recall. The driver just didn't leave enough space!

Tom Richardson · Post by **Tom Richardson** » 14 Oct 2008, 4:45pm

Its a continual problem in Sheffield, Manchester and roads in between, mainly where trucks are moving slow as Meic says. I've been barged off the road by trucks that have hit me as they have pulled in and forced into the verge to avoid truck drivers that have pulled in on purpose or claim not to have seen me even though I have been right in front of them in dayglo yellow just before.

Theres some kind of psychology going on with drivers of all types, that I don't understand, that motivates them to overtake bicycles even when it obvious that they can't get past safely (regardless of primary positions and all that - I can stick my right arm out on a narrow road in the face of oncoming traffic - drivers still overtake). Its very risky with cars - lethal with trucks.

dmiller · Post by **dmiller** » 14 Oct 2008, 7:47pm

Hey,

I would have a word with Buffalo Bill over on Moving Target. He will have a lot of info for you as he does a lot of good work around this.

They also have what is one of the saddest pictures I have ever seen here. I cant put into words what it is about this picture that moves me. Its a sort of rage / sadness / impotence.

David.

Edit - nevermind - I see you found him here..

Wildduck · Post by **Wildduck** » 14 Oct 2008, 7:49pm

Have you tried contacting the London Cycle Campaign? Usually have alot to say about this problem.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » 14 Oct 2008, 8:00pm

As an aside to this, I ride to work on a route frequented by Cemex wagons (there's a quarry further up the dale) - I've been riding this route for about a year, and I've been consistently surprised and pleased by the conduct of the wagon drivers. They have always seemed very aware of me, of my speed and of my position, and have given me plenty of time and space. At 7am on cold, dark winter mornings when there's a convoy of two or three of them overtaking on a country road, this is quite reassuring.

It hasn't happened by accident, though: a quick google reveals some of the back story. Turns out that the company was involved in a cyclist's death in London, and a couple of persistent souls lobbied and struggled with the company. I must have them to thank. Here's a link to the story:

http://www.londonfgss.com/post313682-476.html

Apologies for some of the language on this forum, but as it says, the link to the original article doesn't seem to be valid.

spiderweb34 · Post by **spiderweb34** » 14 Oct 2008, 8:17pm

Probably not any use, but I was shocked by the stats and the map that I found below.......

Stats:
http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/ ... t_0206.pdf

London Fatalities Map:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?hl=en& ... 64702&z=12

(Linked from http://www.cyclesafelondon.com/?p=50)

And finally a solution....?
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... article.do

thirdcrank · Post by **thirdcrank** » 14 Oct 2008, 8:28pm

spiderweb34

I'm sure that anything that enables drivers to see down the nearside of their vehicle is a good thing, but it does not really help if the driver could not care less where the cyclist is.

Obviously, despite all the publicity about lorry blind spots, some collisions occur because cyclists sneak up the nearside of a lorry, especialy one that is about to turn or swing left. This is not restricted to cyclists, as some car drivers seem unable to understand that a large lorry indicating left is probably going to turn left, even if the driver is obliged to swing right first to clear the corner.

On the other hand, if a lorry driver approaching a cyclist from behind decides to overtake in the almost certain knowledge that they will have to move back to the left before they have overtaken the cyclist completely, then no amount of visual devices will help, because by starting the manoeuvre, they have demonstrated that they are indifferent to the fate of the cyclist.

spiderweb34 · Post by **spiderweb34** » 14 Oct 2008, 8:45pm

Sorry it didn't come across as I meant......the comment was very tongue in cheek.

thirdcrank · Post by **thirdcrank** » 14 Oct 2008, 8:49pm

We need another little face thing. (Some posters seem to use all sorts of little characters - Yorkshireman even had one waggling his BTM at me but I'm stuck with the selection on the left.)