Knee protection please

[Pinhead]

Reasonable cost thanks

I fall off, usually once every ride LOL, either starting or stopping, cambers, hill turning round, yes I know, I am not however asking for advice on that so...

Knee protection, I see many professionals use knee protection, I also ride on places such as the video, any advice please on reasonable knee protection, eg what about these, (or similar) can I have advice from "users" please.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bodyprox-Prote ... 9hdGY&th=1


https://youtu.be/WVkgaoL9hw0

[re_cycler]

Lots of options listed here.

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers ... -knee-pads

[a.twiddler]

Excellent protection, maybe, but hardly "reasonable price". Possibly skateboarding or roller skating gear might be equally effective. i've no experience of modern stuff like this, but as long as something has decent impact resistance, abrasion resistance and some shock absorbtion ability it might be a bit like choosing a helmet, that you have to try them on to see what gives the best fit?

[Paulatic]

From £15 https://www.screwfix.com/c/safety-workw ... /cat850426

[re_cycler]

Knee protection, I see many professionals use knee protection, I also ride on places such as the video, any advice please on reasonable knee protection, eg what about these, (or similar) can I have advice from "users" please.

Is this to wear over trousers or with shorts ?

I've found from wearing a knee brace on a bike that material bunching up behind your knee as your knee bends can become uncomfortable very quickly.

[Cowsham]

Knee protection, I see many professionals use knee protection, I also ride on places such as the video, any advice please on reasonable knee protection, eg what about these, (or similar) can I have advice from "users" please.

Is this to wear over trousers or with shorts ?

I've found from wearing a knee brace on a bike that material bunching up behind your knee as your knee bends can become uncomfortable very quickly.

That's what I would've thought -- is there any Lycra with knee pads in ?

[Psamathe]

Or maybe try and solve the underlying problem?

eg if somebody asked me about better seat belts for their car because they kept hitting things then I'd respond that better seat belts won't solve the problem and easier and cheaper to sort out why they keep hitting things.

If you are falling off so often it wont be just your knees that will suffer but other body parts as well as bike damage. In my personal opinion the paths shown are not so challenging as to cause so many falls. Getting distracted? Bike handling sub-optimal?, etc.

ie you can protect your knees for £0 by not falling off.

Ian

[pjclinch]

Or maybe try and solve the underlying problem?

eg if somebody asked me about better seat belts for their car because they kept hitting things then I'd respond that better seat belts won't solve the problem and easier and cheaper to sort out why they keep hitting things.

If you are falling off so often it wont be just your knees that will suffer but other body parts as well as bike damage. In my personal opinion the paths shown are not so challenging as to cause so many falls. Getting distracted? Bike handling sub-optimal?, etc.

ie you can protect your knees for £0 by not falling off.

I found my thoughts running along the same lines (wrists and collar bones probably most susceptible, and you can't brace your way out of a collar bone fracture). And while it wouldn't necessarily be £0, some training/coaching might be very good value.

Does the following seem familiar at all?
I coach (very) beginner mountain biking to kids from "just graduated from balance bikes" level and the most common cause of falls and stumbles is stopping and starting when they can't do what they've been used to and stop sat on the saddle with two feet down flat. If anything seems like it's going wrong default is hit the brakes, stay on the seat and put two feet out. That's great on a balance bike, it's a disaster on a mountain bike set up with the seat for pedalling: no feet on a pedal and there's no power and it's very hard to move weight around for balance, and because a MTB bottom bracket is high it's pretty much impossible to get two feet down at the same time if sat on the seat and one tends to need to lean quite a bit to get one foot down, resulting in much staggering and barely controlled dismounts (and where that's been set in motion by a worried reaction to difficult ground, the staggering may well be in a really awkward place).
We stop that happening by making a default stop a thing where the rider puts all weight on one pedal at 6 o'clock and steps down ahead of the seat, putting the other foot down flat on the ground. To start, pull the pedal up from 6 o'clock to about 2 and stand on it, only getting back in the seat once you're going. And that eliminates the great majority of falls IME.
Get that dialled in as a default and all the silly low-speed tight-turn fiascos simply stop right away with one foot flat down rather than an ungainly dance with two feet flailing about too high above the ground before keeling over sideways.


Here's the one-foot-down. In this pic the rider has pulled their pedal up ready to start, on stopping the pedal with the foot on will be at 6 o'clock. Once stopped you have a triangle for optimum stable support (two wheels on the long side, a foot flat on the ground for the third) and no balancing on tippy-toe needed.

If you're already doing that...
The chair of our local advocacy group took a different method when encountering balance problems as she got older, which was an e-assist trike rather than bike. Once you've dialled in to the steering differences it's much harder to fall off a trike, particularly starting/stopping.

Pete.

[Jdsk]

Great description of out of the saddle and one foot down.

I also think that reluctance to use this and sticking with stay in the saddle and both feet down accounts for some problems in fitting. For many riders on many HPVs it isn't possible to optimise the riding position while using that technique.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

...
Knee protection, I see many professionals use knee protection, I also ride on places such as the video, any advice please on reasonable knee protection, eg what about these, (or similar) can I have advice from "users" please.
...

Efficient pedalling requires flexion at the knee.

Are there protectors that have multiple separate horizontal bars which allow easy flexion while still providing protection from external impact?

Jonathan

[Cowsham]

Or maybe try and solve the underlying problem?

eg if somebody asked me about better seat belts for their car because they kept hitting things then I'd respond that better seat belts won't solve the problem and easier and cheaper to sort out why they keep hitting things.

If you are falling off so often it wont be just your knees that will suffer but other body parts as well as bike damage. In my personal opinion the paths shown are not so challenging as to cause so many falls. Getting distracted? Bike handling sub-optimal?, etc.

ie you can protect your knees for £0 by not falling off.

I found my thoughts running along the same lines (wrists and collar bones probably most susceptible, and you can't brace your way out of a collar bone fracture). And while it wouldn't necessarily be £0, some training/coaching might be very good value.

Does the following seem familiar at all?
I coach (very) beginner mountain biking to kids from "just graduated from balance bikes" level and the most common cause of falls and stumbles is stopping and starting when they can't do what they've been used to and stop sat on the saddle with two feet down flat. If anything seems like it's going wrong default is hit the brakes, stay on the seat and put two feet out. That's great on a balance bike, it's a disaster on a mountain bike set up with the seat for pedalling: no feet on a pedal and there's no power and it's very hard to move weight around for balance, and because a MTB bottom bracket is high it's pretty much impossible to get two feet down at the same time if sat on the seat and one tends to need to lean quite a bit to get one foot down, resulting in much staggering and barely controlled dismounts (and where that's been set in motion by a worried reaction to difficult ground, the staggering may well be in a really awkward place).
We stop that happening by making a default stop a thing where the rider puts all weight on one pedal at 6 o'clock and steps down ahead of the seat, putting the other foot down flat on the ground. To start, pull the pedal up from 6 o'clock to about 2 and stand on it, only getting back in the seat once you're going. And that eliminates the great majority of falls IME.
Get that dialled in as a default and all the silly low-speed tight-turn fiascos simply stop right away with one foot flat down rather than an ungainly dance with two feet flailing about too high above the ground before keeling over sideways.


Here's the one-foot-down. In this pic the rider has pulled their pedal up ready to start, on stopping the pedal with the foot on will be at 6 o'clock. Once stopped you have a triangle for optimum stable support (two wheels on the long side, a foot flat on the ground for the third) and no balancing on tippy-toe needed.

If you're already doing that...
The chair of our local advocacy group took a different method when encountering balance problems as she got older, which was an e-assist trike rather than bike. Once you've dialled in to the steering differences it's much harder to fall off a trike, particularly starting/stopping.

Pete.

He did say he wasn't asking for advice on the not falling off bit but that's exactly what he got reams of.

Here's something that might help
https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Alpinestars-Al ... jGEALw_wcB

[Pinhead]

Knee protection, I see many professionals use knee protection, I also ride on places such as the video, any advice please on reasonable knee protection, eg what about these, (or similar) can I have advice from "users" please.

Is this to wear over trousers or with shorts ?

I've found from wearing a knee brace on a bike that material bunching up behind your knee as your knee bends can become uncomfortable very quickly.

Bloody good question I never thought of, ok shorts and under long jogging bottoms

[pjclinch]

He did say he wasn't asking for advice on the not falling off bit but that's exactly what he got reams of.

As the Glimmer Twins pointed out, you can't always get what you want but sometimes you might get what you need.

Standard risk management, PPE comes at the bottom of what to do, not having the problem in the first place is significantly better.

Here's something that might help
https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Alpinestars-Al ... jGEALw_wcB

Reinforced knees on trousers are good against abrasion but don't take much away from an impact, so for some values of "help".

Pete.

[re_cycler]

Knee protection, I see many professionals use knee protection, I also ride on places such as the video, any advice please on reasonable knee protection, eg what about these, (or similar) can I have advice from "users" please.

Staying away from the question of why, what sort of knee impacts are you expecting to suffer from ?
If it's just a bit of abrasion then a neoprene sleeve with some basic padding may well be enough, but expect to get hot and sweaty around the knees. As someone commented above hands, wrists and upper legs tend to be more common impact points.

[Psamathe]

...
He did say he wasn't asking for advice on the not falling off bit but that's exactly what he got reams of.
...

He did say he wanted knee protection and one way to protect the knees is through not falling off and hitting the knees and better technique which protects the knees.

Or if I advised visiting <x> store who sell knee pads I am giving advice!

Good technique, protecting body parts are all inextricably linked.

Do you go to your GP with a problem but tell them you don't want to be told the solution? Madness.

Ian