New Bike Thoughts and advice

[gbnz]

The only reason i was thinking about a "Gravel Bike" is to cope with the pot holes etc, My last bike was an MTB, and the road resistance on the big fat knobbly tyres was an absolute curse. While super skinny wheels will just shatter at the sight of a rough patch of road.
Ive never heard of a Cyclocross bike.. (Sorry) Where do they fit in to to things ...

I'd suggest that too much is made of pot holes. And certainly wouldn't let a fear of pot holes determine the type of bike you buy

I can't recall any pot hole damage after 42 yr's cycling across the UK, doesn't really matter if I've been on a super light weight, 16 spoke road wheel, c/w 20mm tyre, or something heavier duty in nature.

[Nearholmer]

^^^

Pothole damage is one question. Comfort when riding on poorly-maintained roads is another, and having more air-suspension, fatter tyres than will fit in a very aero road frame and forks, certainly helps with that.

[pjclinch]

Gearboxes like the Pinion do indeed look great, but out of your proposed budget that would leave you roughly nothing for frame, wheels, brakes, forks etc... (they ain't cheap!)

Pete.

[rareposter]

Anyway, back to the OP...

Im thinking a "Gravel Bike" may suit best (given the state of our roads.)
Anything "unnecessary" (IE additional weight) is out for me E.G Suspension.
So it will be for road work

"Gravel bike" covers a wide range from "road bike with slightly wider tyres" at one end to "nearly a mountain bike" at the other end howver that does mean there's a good choice out there.

Weight is obviously a factor but i don't want to pay out absolute fortunes so probably an Aluminum Frame.
Hydraulic Disk brakes ideally but if standard disks if they are comparable let me know, (I've only ever used side pulls)

At the price you're looking at, that's almost certainly going to be an aluminium frame and hydraulic disc brakes. It's very rare to get a gravel bike with anything other than hydraulic discs now although some of the absolute cheapest may have cable discs.

My last bike had i think 21 Gears, I barely used half of them.
Must shift really well and smooth
I hear Rear Derailleurs now have clutches on them is this a gimmic or a really good thing.

Most gravel bikes at the price range you're looking for will be 2x10 or (maybe) 1x11. Again, modern groupsets at that entry level will all be broadly similar but they're generally pretty decent quality. Obviously not the lightest but they all work fine. Rear mechs - yes some have clutches, it's not something you really get to choose, it just is. They're very good on 1x systems, especially off-road.

If i said £1750.00 would that sort me something good ??? Ive really no idea this is me just starting to browse all i know is some of the prices ive seen are just mad.

£1750 should get you a decent entry level bike, there are still some good bargains around in sales as well. Limited sizes but Chain Reaction in their "everything must go administration sale" have some great bargains, eg:
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/v ... ravel-bike
That's a £3000 carbon "all-rounder" for £1600!

The Canyon Grizl that was mentioned in an earlier post is also well worth a look:
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/gravel-bik ... /grizl/al/
£1750 for the 1x version, £1850 for the 2x geared version.

[Jupestar]

there are still some good bargains around in sales as well. Limited sizes but Chain Reaction in their "everything must go administration sale" have some great bargains, eg:
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/v ... ravel-bike
That's a £3000 carbon "all-rounder" for £1600!

That looks a really good value. Wish i'd never clicked the link. Just cleared the CC.

[Nearholmer]

Something to think about in deciding is “lifetime cost of ownership”, things like parts, and if you aren’t entirely DIY, labour.

As someone else mentioned, a lot of the fancier bikes have a lot of internal cable-routing, which increases the fiddle factor, and some of the cassettes and chain wheels, even chains, come quite pricey. That Venon has SRAM Rival 1x, which I found to be a bit of a money-eater drivetrain, for instance, it seemed to chomp through parts very quickly compared with the Shimano GRX 2x that I have now which (touch wood) seems more durable provided one keeps on top of chain renewal.

I also choose steel frame and forks this time round for durability, as I wanted a bike to “last me out”, but I’ll admit there was a fair bit of emotional appeal, as opposed to cold logic, in that too.

[Cowsham]

I remember when I was looking for a new bike and asking the same sort of questions.

One of the things that emerged from the thread was that there was diminishing returns on the higher end versions of the group sets.

I came to a decision to settle on 105 but I wonder if all that has now moved since each new iteration of each particular series gets better.

Eg I was set on Ultegra but was convinced by a more knowledgeable person that the 105 of that year 2019 was as good as an Ultegra from a few years before and that the higher you go the lighter the parts are which can mean great for racing etc but not great for the daily grind of commuting or leisure riding.

The reason I query this is the fact that so many of the bikes listed above are Sora group sets on fairly expensive bikes.

Eg my 2019 Pinnacle Arkose has 105 group set with carbon forks, internal cable routing, tubeless ready strong 36 spoke wheels, great fixings and clearances for mudguards racks etc etc and an overall weight of only 9.5kg ( out of the box ) but only cost £1000 in 2020.

It is a very comfortable bike and I enjoy riding it but wonder what makes a bike with a sora group set worth twice what my bike was bought for ? Especially now that there are so many bike shops in trouble.

It doesn't make sense to me -- usually when that happens you need to back off and look at what's wrong (or right)

[SwiftyDoesIt]

You don't need to spend £1700 on a bike, you can, but there's no need to.

The link below is the type of thing that covers lots of bases regards on and off road use.
Easy to convert to drops if you want but as you've not been on a bike for a long time, flat bar bikes are such an easy way to get back into riding again and you can always add drops and drop bar STIs in the future.
The Sirrus I've linked to has mudguard and pannier rack mounts so can be used all year round.

Also, people are offloading their V braked high end hybrids and caliper road bikes from just a few years back as they're out of fashion, you absolutely do not need disc brakes of any sort. Braking on well set up rim braked bikes are the equal to a disc braked bike IME. Given both are set up and maintained correctly, it's the tyre/terrain interface and your ability to read situations and understand how much time/distance ou ned to brake and when that are the limitations regards slowing/stopping.
Luck finding something
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156093365783 ... 8zhwZDDYw

[rareposter]

It is a very comfortable bike and I enjoy riding it but wonder what makes a bike with a sora group set worth twice what my bike was bought for ? Especially now that there are so many bike shops in trouble.

It doesn't make sense to me -- usually when that happens you need to back off and look at what's wrong (or right)

Pricing post-Covid is still all over the place. Supply and demand was wrecked, the industry thought it was onto a winner or alternatively, stock was flying out the doors and shops were trying to order replacements from anywhere, often double or triple ordering in the hope that somehow they'd get something. The industry looked at the figures of "wow, we've got £10m of orders!!" kind of ignoring the fact that it was really only a third of that and by the time it was delivered even half of that was surplus to requirements cos people had given up or gone elsewhere.

Add in UK-specific issues like inflation and the full impact of Brexit and we're paying hugely over the odds now.

Once the fire sales stuff ends, once CRC has gone and the shops are getting back onto an even keel, RRP might settle down at a bit below what they are now but the days when you could pick up a top end road bike for £5000 are long gone.

[pjclinch]

Also, people are offloading their V braked high end hybrids and caliper road bikes from just a few years back as they're out of fashion, you absolutely do not need disc brakes of any sort. Braking on well set up rim braked bikes are the equal to a disc braked bike IME. Given both are set up and maintained correctly, it's the tyre/terrain interface and your ability to read situations and understand how much time/distance ou ned to brake and when that are the limitations regards slowing/stopping.

"Up to a point, Lord Copper".
Cable rim brakes are just as good if they're nicely tuned (but they get out of tune much more easily than hydraulics), and they're just as good in the dry (but it isn't always dry).

Cable rim brakes do do all you need, but hydraulic discs maintain performance much better and while they're not particularly more powerful (you can lock a wheel with cable rim brakes, after which any more power is a moot point) you can deploy all the power you need with fingertip pressure so you get more control.

I have bikes with cable rim brakes, hydraulic disc brakes, hydraulic rim brakes and cable drum brakes. The hydraulics are the nicest in use but they all work. The hydro rims are fine on the tourer, on the MTB where the rims may be sunk in goop I'm happier to have discs.

So all else equal I'll take hydro discs. But all else isn't equal... (I've just ordered a new bike which will have a rear cable disc and a front hydro rim brake.)

Pete.

[Nearholmer]

The reason I query this is the fact that so many of the bikes listed above are Sora group sets on fairly expensive bikes.

It has all gone mad, and not yet settled to a new position.

Covid led to bike and component shortages, and excess demand.

Component shortages and cost escalations led to bikes being de-specced to maintain price-points (sub-£1000, sub-£1250 etc) and to maintain and increase availability.

Demand softened, then seems to have collapsed as a result of saturation combined with cost-of-living belt-tightening, with suppliers chasing demand with with price cuts.

Now, there are bikes in the shops that have the same model name, but a variety of components on them, many being odd leftovers at super-cheap prices.

It’s all very confusing!! But, if you shop really carefully, it’s also a time of great opportunities.

Doubtless, over a couple of years, it will all settle to some “new normal”, but like so much of life at the moment, heaven alone knows what that will be.

[Cowsham]

The reason I query this is the fact that so many of the bikes listed above are Sora group sets on fairly expensive bikes.

It has all gone mad, and not yet settled to a new position.

Covid led to bike and component shortages, and excess demand.

Component shortages and cost escalations led to bikes being de-specced to maintain price-points (sub-£1000, sub-£1250 etc) and to maintain and increase availability.

Demand softened, then seems to have collapsed as a result of saturation combined with cost-of-living belt-tightening, with suppliers chasing demand with with price cuts.

Now, there are bikes in the shops that have the same model name, but a variety of components on them, many being odd leftovers at super-cheap prices.

It’s all very confusing!! But, if you shop really carefully, it’s also a time of great opportunities.

Doubtless, over a couple of years, it will all settle to some “new normal”, but like so much of life at the moment, heaven alone knows what that will be.

So I think my suggestion of a second hand Arkose is a damn good one -- there's one on here for sale at £200 -- hydraulic brakes -- 9.5kg -- carbon fork - decent quality alloy frame -- 12mm through axle -- 105 group -- all the lugs you'd ever want for attaching stuff -- hollow tech bb -- strong 36 ( edit 32 ) spoke tubeless ready wheels -- internal cables --
You could put another zero on the end of that price above and still not buy a comparable bike -- if I'd lived near reading I'd buy it just to sell on. Unfortunately I'm in NI --- someone's either missed a bargain or got one!

[Nearholmer]

I agree: If there are new bargains to be had by careful shopping, there are definitely also secondhand bargains to be had, But, I guess it depends how confident the OP is at looking a secondhand bike over to check that it’s not a dud in some way before buying.

[Cowsham]

It doesn't make sense to me -- usually when that happens you need to back off and look at what's wrong (or right)

Once the fire sales stuff ends, once CRC has gone and the shops are getting back onto an even keel, RRP might settle down at a bit below what they are now but the days when you could pick up a top end road bike for £5000 are long gone.

I'm what's usually called a "Swing Trader" ie not a day trader or anything near but I've found prices can fall as fast and even further than they climbed.

I wouldn't be surprised by any " price action " after this what I'd call a transient peak -- although it's an unusual event ' chart wise ' it can't be discounted and will have an affect on future price action.

But the main driver of prices recently is the devaluation of currency mainly coming from 2008 now that money is back in demand. We didn't see the hidden inflation bomb until the demand for debt came back which is always inevitable. Part of this is due to people putting more value in their homes since covid has shown a lot of people can work from home.

There's a few factors like that demand for bikes during lockdown giving that unusual peak but now I expect quite a fall in prices so watch this space.

[Brucey]

....I have bikes with cable rim brakes, hydraulic disc brakes, hydraulic rim brakes and cable drum brakes. The hydraulics are the nicest in use but they all work......

when conditions are very bad drum brakes can out-perform anything else because they don't get contaminated so easily. The only bad points for drum brakes on solo bicycles are a) absolute power (you cannot expect to do stoppies on a 70mm front drum brake and 700C wheels) and b) modulation; they don't modulate as well as a hydro disc, but that is a bit like saying your GF isn't as good-looking as a hollywood A-list actress; it kind of goes without saying.