Over-powerful LED lights

[Bmblbzzz]

Tinted lenses clearly (ha!) work by cutting out a range of frequencies such that the average of what they transmit is the colour of the tint; in this case, yellow. They obviously don't cut out all non-yellow light and equally obviously, it isn't only yellow things that reflect or emit yellow light. Nevertheless, they inevitably reduce the total amount of light reaching your eye and at night, that can't be a good thing.

Okay, so far that's teaching grandma to suck eggs (nice yellow eggs, they must have big yolks). But we also know that more light isn't always a good thing, even at night. Even disregarding glare, we can see very well with minimal light once our eyes are adjusted – and then a bright light comes along, destroying our night vision, and we can no longer see the peripheral areas. So perhaps something similar is going on with tinted lenses? We know that vision happens mostly in the brain, not the eye, so it's probably not straightforward and likely what works for some people, won't for others, cos brains.

[Jdsk]

The regulations (which are UN ECE), history and dates of change for selective yellow headlights:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_yellow

Jonathan

[pjclinch]

As correctly predicted by Al, what studies there are seem to show no benefit from these, and from very brief Google, it seems are generally advised against, eg https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/ar ... 0Q17g8xnyD

Given the likelihood of confirmation bias, recommending people try for themselves something tested, shown not to be beneficial and recommended against by experts is probably not to be recommended.

If you're later in life and struggling with glare, better to seek professional advice, I suggest.

remember back when French cars all had yellow headlights to "fix" this sort of thing?
noticed how they don't have them any more?

Maybe there's a connection there...

Pete.

I think the French losing their Selective Yellow headlamps was in large part due to EU harmonization, not because they didn't work well - they did, superbly so.

To suggest yellow tinted glasses and yellow headlamp beams create a similar result is misleading.

Granted I took that (at least) a step too far, but where's the evidence that they worked "superbly", and how come nobody else was queuing up to take advantage long before EU harmonisation was A Thing?

Pete.

[roubaixtuesday]

remember back when French cars all had yellow headlights to "fix" this sort of thing?
noticed how they don't have them any more?

Maybe there's a connection there...

Pete.

I think the French losing their Selective Yellow headlamps was in large part due to EU harmonization, not because they didn't work well - they did, superbly so.

To suggest yellow tinted glasses and yellow headlamp beams create a similar result is misleading.

Granted I took that (at least) a step too far, but where's the evidence that they worked "superbly", and how come nobody else was queuing up to take advantage long before EU harmonisation was A Thing?

Pete.

The EU are generally very good at regulation (long, tedious consultation, disparate opinions considered etc) which is one reason why other jurisdictions often follow the EU.

It's unlikely if there was a "superb" advantage to yellow headlights that they wouldn't have been included in the relevant standards.

[simonhill]

The AA have now got in on the act with a survey.

I got it on my newsfeed, but didn't link it. Sorry.

All usual stuff - too bright dazzle, etc.

No doubt 'someone' can find it.

I too thought French yellow lights were to distinguish from military, as told to me by French people. A quick Google says no, but we're to improve and enhance early less powerful lights (my précis).

[Diatom]

The AA have now got in on the act with a survey.

I got it on my newsfeed, but didn't link it. Sorry.

All usual stuff - too bright dazzle, etc.

No doubt 'someone' can find it.

The link to the AA survey report is at:

https://www.theaa.com/about-us/newsroom ... headlights

Just plugging the petition for a review of the brightness of car headlights: it's on the UK Government and Parliament Petitions website at:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petition ... o%20bright

It's now reached 9,484 signatures. If it reaches 10,000, "government will respond to this petition". So, please consider signing.

[Biospace]

Granted I took that (at least) a step too far, but where's the evidence that they worked "superbly", and how come nobody else was queuing up to take advantage long before EU harmonisation was A Thing?

Pete.

If I'd added "for me" to "they worked, superbly so", that would have helped clarify. Driving through the night when weather conditions were poor was made considerably easier with yellow lights - for me. There was also the matter of less glare from oncoming vehicles - for me.

Many in Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg and Scandinavian countries also used yellow lighting.

Lamps with a blu-ish tinge seem fashionable, I don't believe there is any science behind this - they're simply perceived as 'cool'.

[Bmblbzzz]

I think the blueish tinge is not fashionable so much as common due to the prevalence of blue frequencies in LED emissions.

[simonhill]

Not car lights, but another curse of overbright lights.

I was dining at an outside food market tonight. Each cooking stall had a really bright light. A big bulbous thing. There were also a few overhead spotlights made up of rows of (presumably) LEDs. The effect was terrible. The glare was eye squinting, made worse by shiny metal table tops.

I'm sure they were all very energy efficient, but if this is the future if lighting, brings back candles.

[Diatom]

Not car lights, but another curse of overbright lights.

I was dining at an outside food market tonight. Each cooking stall had a really bright light. A big bulbous thing. There were also a few overhead spotlights made up of rows of (presumably) LEDs. The effect was terrible. The glare was eye squinting, made worse by shiny metal table tops.

I'm sure they were all very energy efficient, but if this is the future if lighting, brings back candles.

I couldn't agree more. I wish lighting in general was gentler.

Last night there was a beautiful moon and, in the countryside in Cornwall, I could see perfectly well by that light. The eye can adapt well to low levels of light, but nowadays it is quite rare for people to go out at night without the benefit (or perhaps harm) of unnecessarily bright lighting. I met some other people out walking and they had powerful head torches. I believe they were missing out on the beauty of the moonlight and, after I passed them, my night vision was spoiled for a while.

Although not certain, there are many potential harmful consequences of excessive illumination. Some of these consequences are given in the following paper:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4763120/

[Diatom]

I'm pleased to report that the petition on the government website, asking for a review of headlight brightness at

https://petition.parliament.uk/petition ... o%20bright

.... has now reached 10,278 signatures! The website says the "Government responds to all petitions that get more than 10,000 signatures". I wonder what that means.

If the petition reaches 100,000 signatures before July 15, it "will be considered for debate in Parliament", so please consider signing if you haven't already.

[Mike Sales]

Not car lights, but another curse of overbright lights.

I was dining at an outside food market tonight. Each cooking stall had a really bright light. A big bulbous thing. There were also a few overhead spotlights made up of rows of (presumably) LEDs. The effect was terrible. The glare was eye squinting, made worse by shiny metal table tops.

I'm sure they were all very energy efficient, but if this is the future if lighting, brings back candles.

I couldn't agree more. I wish lighting in general was gentler.

Last night there was a beautiful moon and, in the countryside in Cornwall, I could see perfectly well by that light. The eye can adapt well to low levels of light, but nowadays it is quite rare for people to go out at night without the benefit (or perhaps harm) of unnecessarily bright lighting. I met some other people out walking and they had powerful head torches. I believe they were missing out on the beauty of the moonlight and, after I passed them, my night vision was spoiled for a while.

Although not certain, there are many potential harmful consequences of excessive illumination. Some of these consequences are given in the following paper:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4763120/

Before street lighting people had to plan their night moves with respect to the moon's phases.

The Lunar Society of Birmingham was a British dinner club and informal learned society of prominent figures in the Midlands Enlightenment, including industrialists, natural philosophers and intellectuals, who met regularly between 1765 and 1813 in Birmingham. At first called the Lunar Circle, "Lunar Society" became the formal name by 1775. The name arose because the society would meet during the full moon, as the extra light made the journey home easier and safer in the absence of street lighting. The members cheerfully referred to themselves as "lunaticks", a contemporary spelling of lunatics. Venues included Erasmus Darwin's home in Lichfield, Matthew Boulton's home, Soho House, Bowbridge House in Derbyshire, and Great Barr Hall.

I once found myself walking home on a moonless night on an island with no street lighting. I was saved by the intermittent but regular flashes from the lighthouse. Five flashes every fifteen seconds.

Whereas on a beautiful night of full moon on the Gwent levels I was able to turn off my bike lights. This was before LED lights and so I lost no visual information and saved my batteries. Motors were visible by their lights and noise in plenty of time to switch on, of course. There were few of them, as the Bonington-Jagworths were pounding down the parallel motorway. Their lights and snarl there were an unpleasant reminder that my idyll was a rare exception to the 'normal' mankind dominated world.

[Jdsk]

I'm pleased to report that the petition on the government website, asking for a review of headlight brightness at

https://petition.parliament.uk/petition ... o%20bright

.... has now reached 10,278 signatures! The website says the "Government responds to all petitions that get more than 10,000 signatures". I wonder what that means.

If the petition reaches 100,000 signatures before July 15, it "will be considered for debate in Parliament", so please consider signing if you haven't already.

Unfortunately the obligatory effects are restricted to what it says, and every time that I reread it it becomes more obvious how little that is. The response will probably be "I hear what you're saying".

But it's a useful step in campaigning. How about reviewing all of the bodies/ experts/ whatever who have spoken out? Has any MP joined in?

Jonathan

[Diatom]

[/quote]

Before street lighting people had to plan their night moves with respect to the moon's phases.

The Lunar Society of Birmingham was a British dinner club and informal learned society of prominent figures in the Midlands Enlightenment, including industrialists, natural philosophers and intellectuals, who met regularly between 1765 and 1813 in Birmingham. At first called the Lunar Circle, "Lunar Society" became the formal name by 1775. The name arose because the society would meet during the full moon, as the extra light made the journey home easier and safer in the absence of street lighting. The members cheerfully referred to themselves as "lunaticks", a contemporary spelling of lunatics. Venues included Erasmus Darwin's home in Lichfield, Matthew Boulton's home, Soho House, Bowbridge House in Derbyshire, and Great Barr Hall.

I once found myself walking home on a moonless night on an island with no street lighting. I was saved by the intermittent but regular flashes from the lighthouse. Five flashes every fifteen seconds.

Whereas on a beautiful night of full moon on the Gwent levels I was able to turn off my bike lights. This was before LED lights and so I lost no visual information and saved my batteries. Motors were visible by their lights and noise in plenty of time to switch on, of course. There were few of them, as the Bonington-Jagworths were pounding down the parallel motorway. Their lights and snarl there were an unpleasant reminder that my idyll was a rare exception to the 'normal' mankind dominated world.
[/quote]

That is wonderful, thank you!

[Diatom]

I'm pleased to report that the petition on the government website, asking for a review of headlight brightness at

https://petition.parliament.uk/petition ... o%20bright

.... has now reached 10,278 signatures! The website says the "Government responds to all petitions that get more than 10,000 signatures". I wonder what that means.

If the petition reaches 100,000 signatures before July 15, it "will be considered for debate in Parliament", so please consider signing if you haven't already.

Unfortunately the obligatory effects are restricted to what it says, and every time that I reread it it becomes more obvious how little that is. The response will probably be "I hear what you're saying".

But it's a useful step in campaigning. How about reviewing all of the bodies/ experts/ whatever who have spoken out? Has any MP joined in?

Jonathan

Is anyone on the forum a member of the AA? If so, could they contact the AA to ask what they are going to do about their report on blinding car lights ( https://www.theaa.com/about-us/newsroom ... headlights ) ?