Cycle Retail In Meltdown.

[xjs]

Yeah, I was very confused when I wandered down Great Portland Street and saw Velorution had gone - thought maybe it was my old Portland/Titchfield confusion again!

Good to know about John Lewis - thanks!

[Bmblbzzz]

... I think one of the pay per day bike parks in the area has a small shop.

The fact that there are pay per day bike parks shows there are plenty of people cycling for transport.

[rareposter]

Interesting article from road.cc on Trek's re-evaluation of the market.

https://road.cc/content/tech-news/what- ... try-307233

[pliptrot]

I think the phrase that fits is "killing the goose that laid the golden eggs." The bike industry - overtaken by their marketing departments - figured out that they could increase prices (hugely) disproportionately beyond costs, and make bicycles baubles of fashion to be updated annually. I guess they reached the end of their rope. If anyone can explain how a bicycle made in Taiwan is worth 10,000 quid I'd love to hear it.

[rareposter]

If anyone can explain how a bicycle made in Taiwan is worth 10,000 quid I'd love to hear it.

Taiwan is the world centre of the bike trade. It's incredibly high tech, there's been unbelievable investment in factories, production facilities, staff, training and so on.

In fact it got so expensive and so competitive that Taiwan itself started off-shoring production facilities to Vietnam, Malaysia and so on.

"Made in Taiwan" was seen as a bit of a cheapskate label 30-odd years ago. Now it's a mark of absolute top quality. You'd struggle to build a complete bike without at least some involvement from Taiwan, that's how deeply rooted they are in the industry.

[gbnz]

. If anyone can explain how a bicycle made in Taiwan is worth 10,000 quid I'd love to hear it.

Hmm, paintwork on my last Taiwan made steel bicycle, was in absolutely perfect condition after 20 years. Suppose the alloy frame on my Taiwan made road bike is still perfect after 21 years

If only the paintwork, on my "bespoke", English made Tourer, was off the same quality. Paintwork in exceptionally poor condition after five years, now at eight years suppose it's worth considering having the frame repainted at a decent garage, rather than trying to repaint it at home

Bit like wheels. Mass made, super light 16 spoke road wheels perfectly ok after carrying heavily pannier related loads for several years, bespoke, English made, heavy duty 36 spoke touring wheels notably warped after nine years, will literally have done perhaps < 1% of the pannier related mileage !

Wouldn't pay £10k, but a decent Taiwan made bicycle, definitely worth 3-4 times the price of a bespoke, English made tourer

[Bmblbzzz]

Absolutely. Taiwanese manufacturing, not only of bicycles, is a classic improvement story. As was Japanese before it, and Korean and Chinese after. We're probably now at the beginning of a similar story for Vietnam and Cambodia.

[pliptrot]

I have had 3 bikes made in Taiwan. All expensive. The top-of-the-range Marin bike had balls missing from the headset, a bottom bracket which was hugely out of spec. So creaked and groaned, and the nickel plating on the frame started flaking within 6 months. Our anecdotes will always be different , but mine are in favour of anything-other-than-Taiwan-or-China. These places maybe the centre of the bike industry, but they got there by cost of manufacturing. At the same time the retail industry pushed prices up relentlessly. The chickens are home to roost.

[cycle tramp]

..at this point if anyone said that the nicest people are from Taiwan and not Britain... or vice versa... the rest of the room would look at them like they were barking mad...

..to attempt to identify which country builds bikes of a better quality on a handful of anecdotes.. might be seen in the same view... and fails to take into account things like variances in quality control during and after construction, as well as environmental factors as to what metal finishes can be legally used in what country...
..and it would have to be viewed on a year by year basis and across price points.. perhaps even indexed to that countries cost of living

[pliptrot]

..at this point if anyone said that the nicest people are from Taiwan and not Britain... or vice versa... the rest of the room would look at them like they were barking mad...

..to attempt to identify which country builds bikes of a better quality on a handful of anecdotes.. might be seen in the same view... and fails to take into account things like variances in quality control during and after construction, as well as environmental factors as to what metal finishes can be legally used in what country...
..and it would have to be viewed on a year by year basis and across price points.. perhaps even indexed to that countries cost of living

What? You're right: it really is time to go.

[cycle tramp]

..at this point if anyone said that the nicest people are from Taiwan and not Britain... or vice versa... the rest of the room would look at them like they were barking mad...

..to attempt to identify which country builds bikes of a better quality on a handful of anecdotes.. might be seen in the same view..

What? You're right: it really is time to go.

What? For pointing out that the build quality of your bikes might be due to quality inspection issues rather than a national character defect of a country?

Sounds a bit harsh....

I mean, if you want to go around saying that country x or y only produces inferior products, you can do so under freedom of speech... just sounds a bit extreme, that's all...

[PH]

I have had 3 bikes made in Taiwan. All expensive. The top-of-the-range Marin bike had balls missing from the headset, a bottom bracket which was hugely out of spec.

You were not the customer of that Taiwanese manufacturer, Marin were. The design, specification, tolerances and QC were all set by Marin. That's how the bulk of modern mid volume production works, the actual manufacturing is sub-contracted. Taiwanese manufacturers are capable of producing to any specification set, if you've bought tat, aim your displeasure at the right people.

[Cowsham]

I Googled where Pinnacle bikes are made -- Ans -- Taiwan but what was more interesting was that the forum I found that on were having the same sort of discussion as we are on this forum 14 years ago and it's not even a bike forum.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/bikin ... 0companies.

[Bonzo Banana]

I have had 3 bikes made in Taiwan. All expensive. The top-of-the-range Marin bike had balls missing from the headset, a bottom bracket which was hugely out of spec.

You were not the customer of that Taiwanese manufacturer, Marin were. The design, specification, tolerances and QC were all set by Marin. That's how the bulk of modern mid volume production works, the actual manufacturing is sub-contracted. Taiwanese manufacturers are capable of producing to any specification set, if you've bought tat, aim your displeasure at the right people.

Marin has been for quite a few years a Indonesian brand as it was bought by Insera Sena who also have their own inhouse brand Polygon. It seems extremely likely most if not all Marin's nowadays are made in Indonesia but maybe even they have to farm out some production to Taiwan for certain models which are technically too difficult to manufacture themselves.

[AndyK]

Marin has been for quite a few years a Indonesian brand as it was bought by Insera Sena who also have their own inhouse brand Polygon.

Citation needed, as they say on Wikipedia. The only reference I can find for that statement is another thread on this very forum 5 years ago. According to press reports Marin were bought by European-based investment company Minestone in 2012 and I can't see anything since to say that's changed.