Bikes on trains

[mjr]

A folded (not merely folding) cycle does not require a reservation on any GB national rail service. I don't think it needs a ticket on the Dutch railways either, but I've not double-checked.

As a matter of interest, what size folded?

I've got a Dahon Jack D7. Which is a 26" (wheel size) folder. Would that need a reservation?

How big is it folded? It used to need to fit in either 30x70x90cm or 85x60x60cm (which I think are the old standard sizes for a luggage van) but I think no size is stated in the current national rail conditions, only that it must not be "such that it may cause injury, inconvenience or a nuisance or it may cause damage to property;
23.1.2. there is not enough room for it;
23.1.3. your luggage would obstruct doorways, gangways or corridors;
23.1.4. the loading or unloading may cause delay to trains;"

This probably limits the maximum length in any direction to the width of two seats, whatever that is, else it will likely stick out of a luggage rack or other unused space far enough to obstruct a gangway.

[maximus meridius]

A folded (not merely folding) cycle does not require a reservation on any GB national rail service. I don't think it needs a ticket on the Dutch railways either, but I've not double-checked.

As a matter of interest, what size folded?

I've got a Dahon Jack D7. Which is a 26" (wheel size) folder. Would that need a reservation?

How big is it folded? It used to need to fit in either 30x70x90cm or 85x60x60cm (which I think are the old standard sizes for a luggage van) but I think no size is stated in the current national rail conditions, only that it must not be "such that it may cause injury, inconvenience or a nuisance or it may cause damage to property;
23.1.2. there is not enough room for it;
23.1.3. your luggage would obstruct doorways, gangways or corridors;
23.1.4. the loading or unloading may cause delay to trains;"

This probably limits the maximum length in any direction to the width of two seats, whatever that is, else it will likely stick out of a luggage rack or other unused space far enough to obstruct a gangway.

Bigger than that. About 98x95x35. I could probably get the width down a bit if I took the bars off.

It's not the bike I would want to use for either of my cycle-train-cycle (potential) commutes. It would be fine for the last part (work station to work), but would be sub-optimal for the first part (home to home station), and even more so for the return leg (which is uphill). At the moment the last leg is sort of OK to walk, though at one of them is further than I like to walk in SPDs, in the rain, carrying a laptop bag, spare clothes etc.

Part of my problem is that I work at multiple places. So I have to either carry a lot of stuff, or else leave several changes of clothes, laptop chargers, stationery, etc. deposited at my various places of work.

[Psamathe]

...

And complexity would start to confuse things if e.g. a folding cycle does not require a (paid for) ticket but a non-folding one does. My cycle is folding but even folded takes up a fair amount of space. e.g. on Greater Anglia Norwich to London line you need to make a (free) cycle reservation for a non-folder but a folding cycle does not require a reservation (a "loophole" I've used before much to the annoyance of the platform manager - but the poster was explicit!).

A folded (not merely folding) cycle does not require a reservation on any GB national rail service. I don't think it needs a ticket on the Dutch railways either, but I've not double-checked.

Thanks for clarifying the folding vs folded - I sort of lumped "folding" and "folded" together assuming to travel without a booking you'd be folding your foldable cycle. I can't remember what the platform signs said except they used the term "cycle" rather than "bicycle". When I had the issue my bent tadpole cycle was folded though platform manager was just being 110% uncooperative.

My experience it limited to Greater Anglia and South Western. South Western seem a lot easier, no booking, no issues on their trains, just easy whereas Greater Anglia can be more of a "challenge".

Ian

[axel_knutt]

I've no problem with the passenger with the cycle paying. We pay for food and drink on the train, why not for room for the bike?

A bike takes up 2-3 seat spaces, to break even they'd have to charge 2-3 times your ticket price for the bike. When beneficial activities are more expensive than the harmful, governments are there to tax the harmful and subsidise the beneficial.

[PH]

A bike takes up 2-3 seat spaces, to break even they'd have to charge 2-3 times your ticket price for the bike. When beneficial activities are more expensive than the harmful, governments are there to tax the harmful and subsidise the beneficial.

You're assuming those seats would be occupied. Most times I take my bike on a train, any time not commuter time, it's rarely more than half full. The answer, as pointed out upthread, is to have some tip up seats offering multiple uses for the space according to need.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Different train companies (inevitably) do have their own verbiage around carrying folders on trains.

C2C, the Essex commuter line, notoriously say "Folding cycles should be transported in a protective carrying case." (So do Eurostar, but that's a bit different.)

GWR say "a folding bike with a maximum 20-inch wheel" - their policy initially said 16in but I protested and they changed it! In practice I've never known them object to anything bigger; the nominally 24in wheel on an Airnimal Chameleon is probably closer to 20in anyway were they to break out the tape measure. The only train company I've ever known object to the Chameleon were the Swiss national railways...

[mjr]

A bike takes up 2-3 seat spaces, to break even they'd have to charge 2-3 times your ticket price for the bike. When beneficial activities are more expensive than the harmful, governments are there to tax the harmful and subsidise the beneficial.

You're assuming those seats would be occupied. Most times I take my bike on a train, any time not commuter time, it's rarely more than half full. The answer, as pointed out upthread, is to have some tip up seats offering multiple uses for the space according to need.

Indeed, but also, 4 bikes take the space of 3 seats, if nose-tail with luggage removed to the shelves, as seen on the greater Anglia Flirts. Only some sort of recumbent tricycle would take 3 seats on its own.

[maximus meridius]

I've no problem with the passenger with the cycle paying. We pay for food and drink on the train, why not for room for the bike?

A bike takes up 2-3 seat spaces, to break even they'd have to charge 2-3 times your ticket price for the bike. When beneficial activities are more expensive than the harmful, governments are there to tax the harmful and subsidise the beneficial.

I didn't suggest a price for the bike.

I didn't compare bike charges to seat charges.

All I said was that I've no problem with the passenger with the cycle paying.

[miklcct]

The bike carriage for intercity trains in Great Britain is not fit for the purpose. I have been put off using it and if I really need to carry my bike, I tend to use regional or commuter trains instead (e.g. LNR instead of Avanti, Elizabeth line instead of GWR IET). Taking my bike on a regional / commuter trains means I can board whenever there is a space, and I can just wait for the next train if it is really too full.

I oppose to any form of bike tickets on regional / commuter trains unless every single station, including rural station served by those trains, has a reliable bike hire scheme. It needs to be a pay-as-you-go system with minimal membership fee rather than a subscription system.

[rareposter]

All I said was that I've no problem with the passenger with the cycle paying.

The system is nowhere close to being sufficient to cater for that plus it would kill off what small market share there is in multi-modal travel.
The answer is not to introduce a charge for the current substandard service (which varies wildly between operators), it's TOCs providing a better service to enable and support bike transport.

[Pendodave]

if I really need to carry my bike, I tend to use regional or commuter trains instead (e.g. LNR instead of Avanti, Elizabeth line instead of GWR IET). Taking my bike on a regional / commuter trains means I can board whenever there is a space, and I can just wait for the next train if it is really too full.

Ironically, when returning from a recent trip I was forced to book my bike onto an intercity train, because (due to time restrictions leaving London) I was unable to travel home on my local commuter service.
It pays to be flexible and informed when travelling around the country with a bike. I take the view that it's better to work out how to use the system and enjoy my cycling than let the imperfections stop me getting out.
Hopefully the info on the various threads here will encourage more people to use public transport than frighten them off it.

[maximus meridius]

All I said was that I've no problem with the passenger with the cycle paying.

The system is nowhere close to being sufficient to cater for that plus it would kill off what small market share there is in multi-modal travel.
The answer is not to introduce a charge for the current substandard service (which varies wildly between operators), it's TOCs providing a better service to enable and support bike transport.

All I said was that I've no problem with the passenger with the cycle paying.

[maximus meridius]

if I really need to carry my bike, I tend to use regional or commuter trains instead (e.g. LNR instead of Avanti, Elizabeth line instead of GWR IET). Taking my bike on a regional / commuter trains means I can board whenever there is a space, and I can just wait for the next train if it is really too full.

Hopefully the info on the various threads here will encourage more people to use public transport than frighten them off it.

It will make not a jot of difference. Because this forum is a tiny inward looking world that hardly anybody knows about. I know a few cyclists. None of them have heard about this forum. Which is why the advice to "ask here, we can help you" regarding bikes on trains, however well intentioned, misses the point so very badly. The point I keep trying to make.

[Pendodave]

It will make not a jot of difference. Because this forum is a tiny inward looking world that hardly anybody knows about. I know a few cyclists. None of them have heard about this forum. Which is why the advice to "ask here, we can help you" regarding bikes on trains, however well intentioned, misses the point so very badly. The point I keep trying to make.

Well, you're kind of right, but you're kind of not...
Firstly, you're definitely right, I agree, like lots of things on UK public transport, the bike system is a mess, and nothing that any of us say or do is likely to improve that.
However...
... Even if only a few people are helped, then surely it's A Good Thing?
... The internet is a wonderful thing. I might never have heard of this forum, but if I type "touring bike on a train in the uk" into the duckduckgo search engine, I get a link to the official CTC advice as the 5th item on the list, and a link to this very forum's bike on train thread as the 6th. So 100s of millions of people can find this info if they actually have a need.
Given that I have absolutely no agency in changing transport policy in this country, this is my next best effort to make a positive contribution to make the world a better place for cyclists. (Kind of /s, but actually kind of not).

[maximus meridius]

but if I type "touring bike on a train in the uk" into the duckduckgo search engine

You might be right. Let me just try that with the search engine that the rest of the world uses....

6th in Google. Yes, you are right.

That search term you used? That's what I mean by "inward looking". Most cyclists aren't touring cyclists. That's why there's, hardly any retail operations that target touring cyclists. Well, Spa. And SJS do some stuff that's good for touring cyclists.

Yet again my point is just completely missed. Over and over and over and over and over and over again. That the grubbing around you have to do, the worries about whether it will work or not, as often described right here, are not anything like "normal" travel. I'm not going to repeat the examples of other, better organised travel systems. Because I can't be bothered.

Look, I'm grateful for advice about blutteringpins, contributisers, and diffsprongles that I've had here. And about taking a bike on a train. And I hope always say "thank you". But it's not normal to have to do that amount of research. That's the point I'm trying to make. Ah well.