Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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hondated
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by hondated »

aspiringcyclist wrote:[youtube]C1aSvoIpVss[/youtube]

As both a cyclist and motorcyclist I find this video horrendous.
As for the HGV driver ok he had made a bad mistake and thankfully only the bike was damaged but he did seem to me to be a decent fella.

How sweet was that lady !
Bicycler
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by Bicycler »

Mark1978 wrote:Is this the new "the sun was in my eyes so it's not my fault". "I couldn't see because of the blind spot so it's not my fault"

It's like not being able to see where you're going but plowing on regardless is acceptable now?

Can we add
"He was round a blind bend so I couldn't avoid him" :roll:

Oh and, of course, the CPS were criticised for charging several motorists who ran down pedestrians at night because this
'imposed an unrealistic standard of driving on the suspects in these cases'

http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... -road.html
:twisted:
Last edited by Bicycler on 27 Jul 2015, 12:47pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bicycler
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by Bicycler »

hondated wrote:As for the HGV driver ok he had made a bad mistake and thankfully only the bike was damaged but he did seem to me to be a decent fella.

The problem is that most of the people killed on the roads are killed unintentionally, often by people who are no doubt otherwise decent people. These are mostly crimes of negligence and incompetence, not malice. Being nice and sorry cannot be an excuse.
https://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/201 ... od-people/
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hondated
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by hondated »

LollyKat wrote:It's difficult to see into the cab because of the reflections, but if you look at 6-7 secs you can see the driver's silhouette. He could and should have looked into the side road to check if it was clear. As it was he got his line totally wrong and came round the corner too fast - if you are going to drive on the wrong side of the road at least do it slowly enough for any 'obstacles' to get out of the way! I presume motorcycles don't have horns.

Good point about totally wrong line and anyone who has driven what is called a " six wheeler " by those in the know is that unlike an " eight wheeler " tends to push you straight on when negotiating a corner.

For information 6 & 8 wheelers are determined by each set of wheels on a axle either side.
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hondated
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by hondated »

Bicycler wrote:
hondated wrote:As for the HGV driver ok he had made a bad mistake and thankfully only the bike was damaged but he did seem to me to be a decent fella.

The problem is that most of the people killed on the roads are killed unintentionally, often by people who are no doubt otherwise decent people. These are mostly crimes of negligence and incompetence, not malice. Being nice and sorry cannot be an excuse.
https://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/201 ... od-people/

That's a fair point Bicycler.
Mark1978
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by Mark1978 »

Bicycler wrote:
hondated wrote:As for the HGV driver ok he had made a bad mistake and thankfully only the bike was damaged but he did seem to me to be a decent fella.

The problem is that most of the people killed on the roads are killed unintentionally, often by people who are no doubt otherwise decent people. These are mostly crimes of negligence and incompetence, not malice. Being nice and sorry cannot be an excuse.
https://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/201 ... od-people/


Interesting points made there. Especially in relation to driving licences. Unfortunately it does seem that society at large views driving as a right and something which is fundamental to our very ability to function in society. Hence why revocation of licences seems to be only over short timescales, such as a year.

Now I'm not sure in all cases taking a driving licence away forever is always appropriate. But it should be possible an indeed normal for a licence to be revoked for a lengthy period, such as 10 years, if you've shown yourself incapable behind the wheel. And only returned upon extensive skill and psychological testing - at the drivers expense.
Bicycler
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by Bicycler »

I suspect that insufficient skill is rarely the problem. Unfortunately bad habits, inattention and complacency are hard to test for. No, I don't necessarily buy into the lifetime ban thing either. I do agree with the main thrust of the article which is that we shouldn't let the fact that we are often dealing with people who had no intention of causing harm prevent us from taking action to prevent that person from causing further harm.

I'd like to see more penalties rather than just more serious penalties. My feeling is that the only way we can tackle the problem is by being proactive and taking all misbehaviour seriously instead of just coming down like a ton of bricks on those whose negligence has killed. This is the way we deal with H+S issues in the workplace. All observed misbehaviour is reprimanded, thus hopefully ending the unsafe practices before they cause a fatality. Punishing the few who kill does little to alter the behaviour of the majority.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

More importantly taking it away for short periods should be normal, and common.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Mark1978
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by Mark1978 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:More importantly taking it away for short periods should be normal, and common.


Yes, and any pleading for hardship once you've reached 12 points should be basically impossible.
Psamathe
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by Psamathe »

Bicycler wrote:I suspect that insufficient skill is rarely the problem. Unfortunately bad habits, inattention and complacency are hard to test for....

On the Today program this morning (Radio 4) they were doing a bit about the health aspects of night work (or not following a "normal" type sleep pattern) and they interviewed somebody who does office cleaning overnight, finishing at 7:00am and then they go and do their day job driving an HGV around the country (and typically they get 3 hours sleep each 24 hours )!!

So I wonder if inattentiveness might on occasions be through just being too tired or mentally drained to be focusing properly on what you (the driver) is doing.

Ian
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DaveP
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by DaveP »

Noticed the BBC article at the time, but have only just now found this thread and watched the video.
I'm surprised that incidents like this haven't been more common. Some of the changes made to truck mirrors in recent years, with the intention of improving visibility of the space close to the front rear and sides of the vehicle have had a "side effect" in the form of blind spots in direct vision. I had the misfortune to have to drive an Iveco last week (a smaller one as it happens) and it had a massive blind spot behind the nearside windscreen pillar and mirror. It was too far away from me for head movements to allow me to cover the area. I think its worth pointing out that these vehicles are designed to comply with ever tighter EU regulations and their compliance has been established before the vehicles go on the roads. Officially at least, there's no problem with the vehicle...
Having watched the video I'd probably have set about this turn in a very similar fashion.
There's no knowing how long the bus is going to be there - could be quite a while if he's ahead of schedule - so you probably cant get the 2/3rds or so of the main road that you would need to avoid going on the wrong side of the side street, but the side street isn't too narrow, no one is parked right on the corner, it's reasonably open, visibility should be ok. There is a woman with a push chair walking towards the corner - not too close yet - but makes it very important not to mount the kerb, something he manages, but the look into the mirror to verify pedestrian safety probably denied him his only real chance to spot the motor cycle. As he looked forwards again the bike would already have been in the blind spot and their relative motion would probably have kept it there until the impact occurred.
That's the thing with blind spots. You might know there is one, and try to keep a mental map of what is concealed, but if something else gets in there while your attention is elsewhere - you'll never know until its too late.
As for speed - I don't actually think it was a factor in this instance. He could have gone a bit slower I suppose, but he wasn't going particularly fast. Those steering rear axles only operate at manoeuvring speeds.
I imagine the truck insurers will end up with the bills, but I don't think we should be too hard on the driver.
I'm just glad no one was injured.
Trying to retain enough fitness to grow old disgracefully... That hasn't changed!
AlaninWales
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by AlaninWales »

:roll:
If he did everything right, if this is 'occasionally unavoidable', then trucks like that are simply not safe on public roads. AIUI they require a Banksman in order to manoevre on site due to HASWA regulations. If they are unsafe manoevring under the sole control of the driver (as the Banksman requirement and the responses to this incident of "let's not be hard on the driver" confirm) then there should always be a driver's assistant to ensure that manoevres like this can be made safely in public areas where you cannot expect those around the truck to be trained in the niceties (sic!) of "blind spots".

I have 'blind spots' driving my Skoda estate, some of them I can't see into simply be moving my head (typically when driving into or out of tight junctions); instead I move my body so that I can see into them. You do not need to be relaxed back into the seat the whole time.
Pyranha
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by Pyranha »

I would also say that the driver showed pretty poor judgement in trying to reverse off the bike before he even bothered to find out what he had hit - if there had been someone there that wouldn't have helped. So as to not being 'to hard on the driver' - he should definitely think hard about his actions.
thirdcrank
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Re: Is the entire field of view blocked for an HGV?

Post by thirdcrank »

It's been suggested that this is caused, to some extent, by €U safety regs., and I can believe this to be the case.

We seem to have standardisation across Europe of vehicles but no standardisation of road conditions. Trucks which are OK in countries where they are not allowed anywhere near people are often not OK playing dodgems, or rather bumper cars, in the narrow urban streets of the UK
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