Another tipper truck incident

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Geriatrix
Posts: 1855
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 1:33pm
Location: Caterham

Another tipper truck incident

Post by Geriatrix »

This is now becoming ridiculous.

I'm becoming more convinced by the comment from ibike "I don't think we'll get very far being too nice!".

My thoughts are with the victim and his family.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by [XAP]Bob »

first boris bike one I've heard about...

Spotters should be obligatory on HGVs in London (all roads, but let's start with London)

Trained properly and ultimately culpable with the driver.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 20700
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by Vorpal »

:cry:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
eileithyia
Posts: 8399
Joined: 31 Jan 2007, 6:46pm
Location: Horwich Which is Lancs :-)

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by eileithyia »

Should be locked up for life to ensure he never drives again......what's the use of a life driving ban when clearly the bloke takes no notice of it and nor does the industry in which he is employed... why are they not checking licences etc
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells
hexhome
Posts: 1328
Joined: 1 Oct 2010, 10:33am
Location: Hexham, Northumberland

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by hexhome »

eileithyia wrote:Should be locked up for life to ensure he never drives again......what's the use of a life driving ban when clearly the bloke takes no notice of it and nor does the industry in which he is employed... why are they not checking licences etc


Can we wait for an outcome from the investigation before we start lynching HGV drivers. I am not aware of the drivers status (or indeed the drivers sex).

There is a clear serious problem here, and the solution is never going to be simple or immediate. I have stated my proposal for training to improve the situation on here (and other places including Parliament) many times. It is very slowly being taken up, mainly by London Boroughs. I will outline them again;

1, Make 'Vulnerable Road User' training a compulsory module of the already compulsory Driver CPC requirement.
2, Enforce the law on the illegal practice of paying tipper drivers a load bonus.
kwackers
Posts: 15643
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by kwackers »

hexhome wrote:Can we wait for an outcome from the investigation before we start lynching HGV drivers. I am not aware of the drivers status (or indeed the drivers sex).

I think eileithyia has confused two passages in that report. The focus of the OP and the section included in the report regarding another accident. (I must admit so did I, had to go back and look).
The driver, Denis Putz, was over the legal drink-drive limit. He was on his mobile phone. And he'd been caught 'driving while disqualified' 20 times before.

Lets face it, you wouldn't even want a guy like that to be in charge of a bicycle.
hexhome
Posts: 1328
Joined: 1 Oct 2010, 10:33am
Location: Hexham, Northumberland

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by hexhome »

kwackers wrote:Lets face it, you wouldn't even want a guy like that to be in charge of a bicycle.


I agree, the only way to deal with such people is jail. Dennis Putz was jailed for 7 years, I would like to have seen his employers also jailed.

However, I do want to see all lorry drivers to attend a cycle awareness course. They seem to work extremely well - http://www.cycletraining.co.uk/library/ ... 000128.pdf
eileithyia
Posts: 8399
Joined: 31 Jan 2007, 6:46pm
Location: Horwich Which is Lancs :-)

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by eileithyia »

hexhome wrote:
eileithyia wrote:Should be locked up for life to ensure he never drives again......what's the use of a life driving ban when clearly the bloke takes no notice of it and nor does the industry in which he is employed... why are they not checking licences etc


Can we wait for an outcome from the investigation before we start lynching HGV drivers. I am not aware of the drivers status (or indeed the drivers sex).

There is a clear serious problem here, and the solution is never going to be simple or immediate. I have stated my proposal for training to improve the situation on here (and other places including Parliament) many times. It is very slowly being taken up, mainly by London Boroughs. I will outline them again;

1, Make 'Vulnerable Road User' training a compulsory module of the already compulsory Driver CPC requirement.
2, Enforce the law on the illegal practice of paying tipper drivers a load bonus.



If there were 2 incidents reported on and confused, then I apologise if I misread it, I was very tiredlast night after a busy day, but it does not alter the fact that one of the reported drivers was over the limit and been caught driving on numerous occasions while already banned......

As said he should not even be in charge of a bicycle!
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by [XAP]Bob »

[XAP]Bob wrote:first boris bike one I've heard about...

Spotters should be obligatory on HGVs in London (all roads, but let's start with London)

Trained properly and ultimately culpable with the driver.


Not intended as a slight on HGV drivers, many of whom are excellent - courteous and patient.

Just an observation of the difficulties of taking a large vehicle through small spaces shared with vulnerable people.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Geriatrix
Posts: 1855
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 1:33pm
Location: Caterham

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by Geriatrix »

eileithyia wrote:As said he should not even be in charge of a bicycle!

Some would echo a sentiment that some who are in charge of a bicycle shouldn't be :) .

Which does raise a serious point about Boris bikes (and others) mixing in the maelstrom of London traffic with HGV's. A percentage of cyclists will do things that we know are dangerous because they don't know any better. Many of these cyclists are licensed car drivers.

The establishment of the London cycle hire scheme implies that the City fathers knew that inexperienced cyclists will take to London's roads and that its OK for them to do so. Which begs the question, where does the responsibility for HGV and cycling safety lie?

(This isn't a criticism of the Boris bike scheme BTW, which I think is great)
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman
kwackers
Posts: 15643
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by kwackers »

Geriatrix wrote:The establishment of the London cycle hire scheme implies that the City fathers knew that inexperienced cyclists will take to London's roads and that its OK for them to do so. Which begs the question, where does the responsibility for HGV and cycling safety lie?

Isn't the Boris scheme actually proving somewhat safer per mile travelled than regular bikes??

If so then it says a lot about 'experienced' cyclists... :lol:
Geriatrix
Posts: 1855
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 1:33pm
Location: Caterham

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by Geriatrix »

kwackers wrote:
Geriatrix wrote:The establishment of the London cycle hire scheme implies that the City fathers knew that inexperienced cyclists will take to London's roads and that its OK for them to do so. Which begs the question, where does the responsibility for HGV and cycling safety lie?

Isn't the Boris scheme actually proving somewhat safer per mile travelled than regular bikes??

If so then it says a lot about 'experienced' cyclists... :lol:

That's true and its surprising that no one has investigated that. I have a suspicion that drivers assume that anyone on a Boris bike demands special attention and gives them the amount of attention they should be giving all cyclists.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman
kwackers
Posts: 15643
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by kwackers »

Geriatrix wrote:That's true and its surprising that no one has investigated that. I have a suspicion that drivers assume that anyone on a Boris bike demands special attention and gives them the amount of attention they should be giving all cyclists.

Your certainly less likely to be wearing Lycra and more likely to be dressed like a human bean...

(I'm presuming that most drivers wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the bikes, only the riders...)
User avatar
veloevol
Posts: 12
Joined: 27 Sep 2012, 4:06pm

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by veloevol »

kwackers wrote:(I'm presuming that most drivers wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the bikes, only the riders...)


A driver may give a non helmeted rider more awareness than a geared up helmeted commuter.

What we do know is that theres a pattern of truck, cyclist and left turns that is not being addressed by our Cycling Czar or Bike mad mayor.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1366571716.335094.jpg
PRL
Posts: 607
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 9:14pm
Location: Richmond upon Thames

Re: Another tipper truck incident

Post by PRL »

[XAP]Bob wrote:first boris bike one I've heard about...

Spotters should be obligatory on HGVs in London (all roads, but let's start with London)

Trained properly and ultimately culpable with the driver.


Sounds a good idea if the design of HGVs means that they cannot be operated safely in areas shared by cyclists / pedestrians with only a single person keeping watch.
Post Reply