Handlebar sizes / sweep
Handlebar sizes / sweep
I'm thinking of replacing the handlebars on my commuter (MTB / hybrid type bars rather than drops). But I'm a bit confused on sizing. My bars seem to be about 25mm diameter at the clamp and 22mm at the grips. Are pretty much all bars like this, apart from oversize ones (which I think are 31.8mm)?
Wiggle / CTC Shop tend to give clamp diameters but not grip diameters. I don't want to order something only to find that my gears etc don't fit.
By the way, I'm thinking of something like the On-One Mary bars with large amounts of rearward sweep. Any other bars with similar sweep, although perhaps not so extreme?
Cheers,
Mark
Wiggle / CTC Shop tend to give clamp diameters but not grip diameters. I don't want to order something only to find that my gears etc don't fit.
By the way, I'm thinking of something like the On-One Mary bars with large amounts of rearward sweep. Any other bars with similar sweep, although perhaps not so extreme?
Cheers,
Mark
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
Thanks Julk. Worth considering.
Mark
Mark
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- Posts: 20
- Joined: 27 Sep 2009, 10:49am
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
As far as i understand it, bars tend to come in either 25.4mm or 26.0mm sizes to go with the clamp size on your stem. They are very probably 25.4mm, I believe that is the standard now, but if you have vernier callipers you can work it out pretty accurately.
You can put shims around the bars if they are too narrow for your brakes etc - I used to have some of those in place and it worked fine.
Nice bars here, nothing exactly the same as the ones you mention but a few similar ones.
You can put shims around the bars if they are too narrow for your brakes etc - I used to have some of those in place and it worked fine.
Nice bars here, nothing exactly the same as the ones you mention but a few similar ones.
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
mark a. wrote:I'm thinking of replacing the handlebars on my commuter (MTB / hybrid type bars rather than drops).
OK, but what is the problem that you are trying to solve ?
- Perhaps you want to keep your hands in the same place as they are now, but with the grips in a more comfortable orientation ?
- Perhaps you want to change your riding position ? More laid-back ? More aero ?
- Both of these ?
mark a. wrote:But I'm a bit confused on sizing. My bars seem to be about 25mm diameter at the clamp and 22mm at the grips. Are pretty much all bars like this, apart from oversize ones (which I think are 31.8mm)?
25.4mm = 1", 22.2mm = 7/8" Yes. "Pretty much", so check.
mark a. wrote:I'm thinking of something like the On-One Mary bars with large amounts of rearward sweep. Any other bars with similar sweep, although perhaps not so extreme?
As I understand the Mary bars, they are designed to give more a comfortable wrist orientation on an MTB, without changing the grip position much, compared to a straight bar. I think they are designed to keep the grip positions roughly in line with the clamp. Partly intended to minimise torque about the clamp (bar designed for rufty-tufty MTB use). They bend forwards, then back.
mark a. wrote:extreme
Whether they're "extreme" or not depends on what you are trying to do, and how it matters to you what the bicycle looks like. Many people on this forum have bars with 90 degree "sweepback" - traditional drop bars.
We've got bikes with 25.4/22.2mm bars with about 10, 20, 40, and 65 degree sweepback, and I think they all make some sense for us. We've also got bars with swept-back grips that didn't work for what we were trying to do, for reasons other than the amount of sweepback.
Don't drive on the railroad track.
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
JEJV wrote:OK, but what is the problem that you are trying to solve ?
- Perhaps you want to keep your hands in the same place as they are now, but with the grips in a more comfortable orientation ?
- Perhaps you want to change your riding position ? More laid-back ? More aero ?
- Both of these ?
My main issue is the wrist angle over longer rides. I need a bit more sweep to bring my wrist back to a more natural position. I could also do with the reach being a bit closer. The height is about right (the current bars have a bit of rise).
JEJV wrote:As I understand the Mary bars, they are designed to give more a comfortable wrist orientation on an MTB, without changing the grip position much, compared to a straight bar. I think they are designed to keep the grip positions roughly in line with the clamp. Partly intended to minimise torque about the clamp (bar designed for rufty-tufty MTB use). They bend forwards, then back.
I asked On One who said that the bars will reduce reach. They didn't answer my question about bar diameters, though, hence asking on here. Sounds like they'll actually fit - thanks for the help.
Ultimately my main problem is that the frame is a bit too large. The one that was officially right for me felt way too small (it's a Carrera Subway 8 from Halfords). I think it's probably a mountain bike compact frame but I'm using it more like a stretched out road bike. So the frame is probably a bit too large which means that the reach is a bit too far without moving the adjustable headset too high.
My aim is to replace the bars with something with a bit more angle and a bit less reach without changing the height too much.
Thanks,
Mark
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
Here's a few bars I've played with:
They are:
- "Raleigh" "North Rounder" RNH360
- no-name steel bar from LBS
- "Raleigh" "Trekking" RNH361
- Bars supplied with giant CRS hybrid bikes
The Raleigh branded ones are probably more interesing, because they're more available.
The rise on these bars is
- 71mm
- 27mm
- 26mm
- 46mm
What I mean by rise is the centre to centre rise from the clamp to the grip sections, measured at right angles to plane of the the grips.
So if you flip the bars over, the grips will move twice the distances above.
I was trying to do the opposite of what you're doing - grips lower, & further forward, bars upside-down. That gets uncomfortable if the grips are too straight and too far forward, or too far apart. Wide grips (normal straightish bars) may be OK if you have an upright riding position, but as the bars move forwards, and more weight goes through your arms, it helps to have your arns coming (more) straight forwards from your shoulders, and wrists in a more relaxed position.
The "North Rounder" bars were useless for me - as soon as I tried them, I realised that my hands were too far apart for my arms and shoulders to be comfortable.
I measured the pictures of the Mary bars, and estimated that I'd have the same problem with them. Outer bends close to the centre makes the bars usable in more ways.
I think the wrist problem you refer to is more complicated than more weight through wrists needs more relaxed wrist position - with the "North Rounder" bars, which I used for about 3 miles, the splayed-out reptilian position was uncomfortable even pedalling uphill - which unloads the arms.
The controls can be anywhere outboard of the outer bends - the width between the outer bends, and the overall width, limit the range of effective widths available. The closer the outer bends, the more freedom you have to locate the controls, since most non-drop bars are about 600mm wide overall. The location of the controls shouldn't be determined just by the length of whatever rubber grips you happen to have.
One way to get unusual lengths of grip is to cut up foam grips, such as:
http://www.freemanscycles.co.uk/product ... p%20BHG-27
- these are designed for butterfly bars, hence the pair of two 40cm grips, but can be cut doen to give two sets of grips for riser bars. Cut them a bit longer than you think you'll need - you can trim them later if necesary, and they can squash/stretch a bit. Could use grip tape, but that's more awkward and less re-useable. There are other similar foam products, but this is the best value I've found.
I'd try the "Raleigh" trekking bars. But you might want to fiddle with the stem as well.
Bars with more sweepback are (usually) going to reduce reach, unless you use a longer stem. So /we/ have 130mm+ stems on the bikes with the with the (upside-down) Raleigh "Trekking" bars. But if you think that you want to reduce reach anyway, you might be OK with the stem you have now.
Another bit of the ergonomics is angling the controls so that the gears, and especially the brakes are immediately available, without changing the wrist/arm position.
So there's usually a few variables to play with:
- fore/aft grip position (reach), mostly determined by stem & bar choice.
- vertical grip position, determined by stem, spacers/stem height, bar rise, bars upside-down or not.
- grip angle, relative to horizontal
- grip width - also affects reach for swept-back bars
- bars upside-down or not - unless the grip position is in line with the bar clamp. Mostly affects vertical position.
Quite small changes to - say - grip angle relative to horizontal, can sometimes make a big difference to comfort.
Here's another thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20042&start=0
This might be interesting. Follow the "thread" link - someone using mary bars.
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/forum/bo ... 134452&v=2
Stem calculator:
http://alex.phred.org/stemchart/Default.aspx
It would be nice to have a calculator that handled handlebars too. But that would be complicated.
They are:
- "Raleigh" "North Rounder" RNH360
- no-name steel bar from LBS
- "Raleigh" "Trekking" RNH361
- Bars supplied with giant CRS hybrid bikes
The Raleigh branded ones are probably more interesing, because they're more available.
The rise on these bars is
- 71mm
- 27mm
- 26mm
- 46mm
What I mean by rise is the centre to centre rise from the clamp to the grip sections, measured at right angles to plane of the the grips.
So if you flip the bars over, the grips will move twice the distances above.
I was trying to do the opposite of what you're doing - grips lower, & further forward, bars upside-down. That gets uncomfortable if the grips are too straight and too far forward, or too far apart. Wide grips (normal straightish bars) may be OK if you have an upright riding position, but as the bars move forwards, and more weight goes through your arms, it helps to have your arns coming (more) straight forwards from your shoulders, and wrists in a more relaxed position.
The "North Rounder" bars were useless for me - as soon as I tried them, I realised that my hands were too far apart for my arms and shoulders to be comfortable.
I measured the pictures of the Mary bars, and estimated that I'd have the same problem with them. Outer bends close to the centre makes the bars usable in more ways.
I think the wrist problem you refer to is more complicated than more weight through wrists needs more relaxed wrist position - with the "North Rounder" bars, which I used for about 3 miles, the splayed-out reptilian position was uncomfortable even pedalling uphill - which unloads the arms.
The controls can be anywhere outboard of the outer bends - the width between the outer bends, and the overall width, limit the range of effective widths available. The closer the outer bends, the more freedom you have to locate the controls, since most non-drop bars are about 600mm wide overall. The location of the controls shouldn't be determined just by the length of whatever rubber grips you happen to have.
One way to get unusual lengths of grip is to cut up foam grips, such as:
http://www.freemanscycles.co.uk/product ... p%20BHG-27
- these are designed for butterfly bars, hence the pair of two 40cm grips, but can be cut doen to give two sets of grips for riser bars. Cut them a bit longer than you think you'll need - you can trim them later if necesary, and they can squash/stretch a bit. Could use grip tape, but that's more awkward and less re-useable. There are other similar foam products, but this is the best value I've found.
mark a. wrote:My main issue is the wrist angle over longer rides. I need a bit more sweep to bring my wrist back to a more natural position. I could also do with the reach being a bit closer. The height is about right (the current bars have a bit of rise).
mark a. wrote:My aim is to replace the bars with something with a bit more angle and a bit less reach without changing the height too much.
I'd try the "Raleigh" trekking bars. But you might want to fiddle with the stem as well.
Bars with more sweepback are (usually) going to reduce reach, unless you use a longer stem. So /we/ have 130mm+ stems on the bikes with the with the (upside-down) Raleigh "Trekking" bars. But if you think that you want to reduce reach anyway, you might be OK with the stem you have now.
Another bit of the ergonomics is angling the controls so that the gears, and especially the brakes are immediately available, without changing the wrist/arm position.
So there's usually a few variables to play with:
- fore/aft grip position (reach), mostly determined by stem & bar choice.
- vertical grip position, determined by stem, spacers/stem height, bar rise, bars upside-down or not.
- grip angle, relative to horizontal
- grip width - also affects reach for swept-back bars
- bars upside-down or not - unless the grip position is in line with the bar clamp. Mostly affects vertical position.
Quite small changes to - say - grip angle relative to horizontal, can sometimes make a big difference to comfort.
Here's another thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20042&start=0
This might be interesting. Follow the "thread" link - someone using mary bars.
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/forum/bo ... 134452&v=2
Stem calculator:
http://alex.phred.org/stemchart/Default.aspx
It would be nice to have a calculator that handled handlebars too. But that would be complicated.
Last edited by JEJV on 2 Jan 2013, 3:25pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don't drive on the railroad track.
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
Thanks very much JEJV. All extremely useful information. Just back from holiday hence my slow reply.
My bike has an adjustable headset so I'll be able to play around with height and reach to some extent when I install the new bars.
I had decided over the holidays (after another wrist-aching experience on a longish ride) to just go for the Mary bars, but now discovered that they're sold out. I'll have a look at the Raleigh Trekking Comfort which look quite similar, although I'd prefer a black bar.
Thanks again,
Mark
My bike has an adjustable headset so I'll be able to play around with height and reach to some extent when I install the new bars.
I had decided over the holidays (after another wrist-aching experience on a longish ride) to just go for the Mary bars, but now discovered that they're sold out. I'll have a look at the Raleigh Trekking Comfort which look quite similar, although I'd prefer a black bar.
Thanks again,
Mark
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
hi, if it's drops on there at the moment then they're likely 25.8 or 26.0mm, unless they are very old ones, which may be 25.4mm.
normally, switching from drops to straights will probably mean you'll need to get a slightly longer stem anyway, but you seem to be saying the frame is currently too stretched out with drops. [i explained my reasoning for this on page 2 of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25997&start=0]
on-one make another bar called 'midge' which has its grips at a shallower angle. the 'mary', as you probably know, has its at 40 degrees. personally ,i found this too much, but it's such a peronal thing and it also depeneds a bit on how you angle the bars.
i know many people rave about the mary bars, so maybe give them a go?
normally, switching from drops to straights will probably mean you'll need to get a slightly longer stem anyway, but you seem to be saying the frame is currently too stretched out with drops. [i explained my reasoning for this on page 2 of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25997&start=0]
on-one make another bar called 'midge' which has its grips at a shallower angle. the 'mary', as you probably know, has its at 40 degrees. personally ,i found this too much, but it's such a peronal thing and it also depeneds a bit on how you angle the bars.
i know many people rave about the mary bars, so maybe give them a go?
Last edited by freedomfighter on 20 Oct 2009, 10:58am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
beautiful picture JEJV. i tried those raleigh ones before - i believe the grips are at 45 degrees, more 'extreme' than the on-one marys.
ah yes, completely forgot about those ones. i found them very comfy and i notice thorn spec them on a lot of their adventure touring machines. 18-degrees i believe. unlike the on-one marys they offer no 'stem correction' for the sweep back.
op, i think you should be prepared to experiment with a few styles and possibly stem lengths.
btw, if you still don't know your clamp size then it's probably stamped somewhere on the bar itself
Somewhat similar.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Thor ... -12228.htm
ah yes, completely forgot about those ones. i found them very comfy and i notice thorn spec them on a lot of their adventure touring machines. 18-degrees i believe. unlike the on-one marys they offer no 'stem correction' for the sweep back.
op, i think you should be prepared to experiment with a few styles and possibly stem lengths.
btw, if you still don't know your clamp size then it's probably stamped somewhere on the bar itself
Last edited by freedomfighter on 20 Oct 2009, 11:37am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
freedomfighter wrote:hi, if it's drops on there at the moment then they're likely 25.8 or 26.0mm, unless they are very old ones, which may be 25.4mm.
It's got MTB straight bars with a slight rise on at the moment, but no noticeable sweep. So it'll just be a straight swap from MTB-MTB to keep things simple (and without having to pay for a new stem, if I can get away with the one that on there at the moment). The Midge look quite fun, but seem to be designed to take road levers.
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
Hi, sorry i was under the impression from your OP that you had drops on there at the mo...
actually, i was thinking of the On-One Fleegle, not the Midge! The fleegle has 15 degree grips - though no rise, which may not suit...
If you feel too stretched out at the moment then you could try a shorter stem; this may be more the problem than the actual shape of the bars
and have you tried raising the stem at all?
[note that your stem clamp is almost certainly 25.4mm as it's a reasonably modern bike with flat bars that are "about 25mm"]
trial and error! good luck.
actually, i was thinking of the On-One Fleegle, not the Midge! The fleegle has 15 degree grips - though no rise, which may not suit...
If you feel too stretched out at the moment then you could try a shorter stem; this may be more the problem than the actual shape of the bars
and have you tried raising the stem at all?
[note that your stem clamp is almost certainly 25.4mm as it's a reasonably modern bike with flat bars that are "about 25mm"]
trial and error! good luck.
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
freedomfighter wrote:I tried those raleigh ones before - i believe the grips are at 45 degrees, more 'extreme' than the on-one marys.
Definitely a fair bit less than 45 degrees, as can be seen in that photo. 40?
Never seen an actual Mary bar, I judged by photos.
This shows the widths.
The on-one site used to have nice pages that explained/wittered on at lenght about what their bars were trying to do, but those pages seem to be gone, and they're not in wayback machine.
So /I/ want either something like the trekking bar, but with 65-70' sweep - on a verrryyy long stem - or (better) a 22mm bulhorn bar, with a very short stem.
Last edited by JEJV on 2 Jan 2013, 3:26pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don't drive on the railroad track.
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
Nice!
I still maintain those grips are at 45-degrees though...
I still maintain those grips are at 45-degrees though...
Re: Handlebar sizes / sweep
If you want a bullhorn bar on the cheap, just use an old pair of drops, turn them upside down and saw them off. Not quite as good as proper bullhorns, but not bad - I commuted for years with a pair. If you're anywhere near Brum I could even furnish you with a pair of bars for very little.
Your stem (25.4) won't fit drops perfectly (26.0) but a bit of elbow grease with a file will sort it.
Your stem (25.4) won't fit drops perfectly (26.0) but a bit of elbow grease with a file will sort it.
One link to your website is enough. G