European trains - sleeper service

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mjr
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by mjr »

Galactic wrote: 10 Dec 2023, 12:58pm
Jdsk wrote: 9 Dec 2023, 4:50pm Paris-Berlin night train returns
Sadly, at least according to the Deutsche Bahn website, this night train doesn't take assembled bikes.
DB are frequently criticised for showing incorrect information about other company trains. I think they recently lost a court case about a complaint by Flixtrain.

However, in this case, bikes will only be carried once the route switches to the Next Generation Night Jet. I think it's expected late 2024 but I expect the confirmed date will appear on https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-route ... ration.htm
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by Galactic »

mjr wrote: 10 Dec 2023, 4:06pm DB are frequently criticised for showing incorrect information about other company trains. I think they recently lost a court case about a complaint by Flixtrain.
Yes, they're not so hot on whether bikes can be taken on trains in countries other than Germany, so I really should have checked on the OeBB website.

With the Flixtrain thing, it was something about hiding the listing. DB argued Flix trains were hidden because they weren't the fastest connection and this was a reasonable way of showing multiple data.
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by Will »

Galactic wrote: 10 Dec 2023, 12:58pm
Jdsk wrote: 9 Dec 2023, 4:50pm Paris-Berlin night train returns
Sadly, at least according to the Deutsche Bahn website, this night train doesn't take assembled bikes. So you'll have to bag your best friend up if you want to sleep your way from Paris to Berlin or back again :(
The new Nightjets (that have 6 bike spaces) have only received approval for Austria, Germany, Italy, Switzerland and the Netherlands, so they currently cannot run on routes to Paris (or Brussels). ÖBB will have to go through the approval process for France before they can be used on the Vienna-Paris and Berlin-Paris routes. I'm sure if they take a set to France for testing/approval purposes then they will be spotted long before any announcements by ÖBB.

The Couchette Comfort coaches (that have 3 bike spaces) are only approved for Austria, Germany, and Switzerland, so we are unlikely to see them on the routes to Paris either.

So no bikes for the forseeable future on Nightjets from Paris.

Will
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CJ
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by CJ »

Slightly off-topic, because we're not taking bikes, but in March my wife and I are making a bit of a sleeper-train saga, involving not one but two nights on the rails, in the hope of viewing the Aurora in Abisko at the northern tip of Sweden and perhaps also at Narvik in Norway.

First we'll tickatty-tock down to 'that London' for a weekend with our son's family, before boarding the first Eurostar of the day to Brussel Zuid. Here we connect with 'Die Bahn' and a chain of ICEs via Köln (and perhaps also Hannover) to Hamburg for dinner and the Swedish EuroNight train to Stockholm. After a day in the City of Islands we take another 'Nattåg' operated by Norwegian Vy trains to the far north. I expect we'll awake more or less as our train leaves the frozen Baltic coast for the more deeply frozen interior and disembark late morning at Abisko on the Scandinavian watershed. Three days later we continue on the 'Arctic Train' to Narvik, following the route of the Ofoten Line, built in 1902 to haul rich reserves of Kiruna iron all-year-round to an ice-free Atlantic port. As I said, we're not taking bikes, but I'll poke around the carriages and ask a few questions about that while I'm there.

Unfortunately I couldn't persuade Helen to spend another four days and two nights on trains to get home, so we're flying back to Manchester in 1/4 of the time for 1/3 the money - but 1/10th of the fun and no adventure at all!
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by Jdsk »

CJ wrote: 13 Dec 2023, 7:01pm Slightly off-topic, because we're not taking bikes, but in March my wife and I are making a bit of a sleeper-train saga, involving not one but two nights on the rails, in the hope of viewing the Aurora in Abisko at the northern tip of Sweden and perhaps also at Narvik in Norway.

First we'll tickatty-tock down to 'that London' for a weekend with our son's family, before boarding the first Eurostar of the day to Brussel Zuid. Here we connect with 'Die Bahn' and a chain of ICEs via Köln (and perhaps also Hannover) to Hamburg for dinner and the Swedish EuroNight train to Stockholm. After a day in the City of Islands we take another 'Nattåg' operated by Norwegian Vy trains to the far north. I expect we'll awake more or less as our train leaves the frozen Baltic coast for the more deeply frozen interior and disembark late morning at Abisko on the Scandinavian watershed. Three days later we continue on the 'Arctic Train' to Narvik, following the route of the Ofoten Line, built in 1902 to haul rich reserves of Kiruna iron all-year-round to an ice-free Atlantic port. As I said, we're not taking bikes, but I'll poke around the carriages and ask a few questions about that while I'm there.

Unfortunately I couldn't persuade Helen to spend another four days and two nights on trains to get home, so we're flying back to Manchester in 1/4 of the time for 1/3 the money - but 1/10th of the fun and no adventure at all!
We started walking Kungsleden at Abisko. I had tried to travel there by train, but we just didn't have enough time, so we flew to Kiruna. And then I'd planned to take the train to Abisko, but a taxi driver persuaded me that he could take all five us more quickly and cheaply!

Have fun

Jonathan
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 3:55pm "Night train extended to link Brussels and Amsterdam to Prague":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... ith-prague

From 25 March 2024.

PS: "European Sleeper is also planning a winter night train between Amsterdam and the French Alps, as well as an EU-backed Amsterdam-Barcelona service launching in 2025. More sleeping cars should increase comfort and the travel experience, it said."
The Man has:
Bikes are carried on the European Sleeper for €19. They are carried in a large bike compartment in the seats car at one end of the train.
https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-route ... ravel_tips

Will this be the same to Prague?

Thanks

Jonathan
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by scragend »

Jdsk wrote: 26 Jan 2024, 11:18am
Jdsk wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 3:55pm "Night train extended to link Brussels and Amsterdam to Prague":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... ith-prague

From 25 March 2024.

PS: "European Sleeper is also planning a winter night train between Amsterdam and the French Alps, as well as an EU-backed Amsterdam-Barcelona service launching in 2025. More sleeping cars should increase comfort and the travel experience, it said."
The Man has:
Bikes are carried on the European Sleeper for €19. They are carried in a large bike compartment in the seats car at one end of the train.
https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-route ... ravel_tips

Will this be the same to Prague?

Thanks

Jonathan
The Prague train is just the existing Berlin one, but it will carry on to Prague, so yes.

I've been doing dummy bookings for the summer as far as Prague with a bike and the web site will let you do it.
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by Will »

CJ wrote: 13 Dec 2023, 7:01pm Slightly off-topic, because we're not taking bikes, but in March my wife and I are making a bit of a sleeper-train saga, involving not one but two nights on the rails, in the hope of viewing the Aurora in Abisko at the northern tip of Sweden and perhaps also at Narvik in Norway.

First we'll tickatty-tock down to 'that London' for a weekend with our son's family, before boarding the first Eurostar of the day to Brussel Zuid. Here we connect with 'Die Bahn' and a chain of ICEs via Köln (and perhaps also Hannover) to Hamburg for dinner and the Swedish EuroNight train to Stockholm. After a day in the City of Islands we take another 'Nattåg' operated by Norwegian Vy trains to the far north. I expect we'll awake more or less as our train leaves the frozen Baltic coast for the more deeply frozen interior and disembark late morning at Abisko on the Scandinavian watershed. Three days later we continue on the 'Arctic Train' to Narvik, following the route of the Ofoten Line, built in 1902 to haul rich reserves of Kiruna iron all-year-round to an ice-free Atlantic port. As I said, we're not taking bikes, but I'll poke around the carriages and ask a few questions about that while I'm there.

Unfortunately I couldn't persuade Helen to spend another four days and two nights on trains to get home, so we're flying back to Manchester in 1/4 of the time for 1/3 the money - but 1/10th of the fun and no adventure at all!
I believe Vy acquired some of the combined Couchette and bike carriages (with 20 bike spaces) that used to be used for DB City Night Line services. They have removed some of the bike hangers and replaced them with luggage racks and space for skis.

Will
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by Jdsk »

scragend wrote: 26 Jan 2024, 1:10pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 Jan 2024, 11:18am
Jdsk wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 3:55pm "Night train extended to link Brussels and Amsterdam to Prague":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... ith-prague

From 25 March 2024.

PS: "European Sleeper is also planning a winter night train between Amsterdam and the French Alps, as well as an EU-backed Amsterdam-Barcelona service launching in 2025. More sleeping cars should increase comfort and the travel experience, it said."
The Man has:
Bikes are carried on the European Sleeper for €19. They are carried in a large bike compartment in the seats car at one end of the train.
https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-route ... ravel_tips

Will this be the same to Prague?
The Prague train is just the existing Berlin one, but it will carry on to Prague, so yes.

I've been doing dummy bookings for the summer as far as Prague with a bike and the web site will let you do it.
Thankyou

Jonathan
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CJ
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by CJ »

Will wrote: 26 Jan 2024, 1:18pm
CJ wrote: 13 Dec 2023, 7:01pm Slightly off-topic, because we're not taking bikes, but in March my wife and I are making a bit of a sleeper-train saga, involving not one but two nights on the rails, in the hope of viewing the Aurora in Abisko at the northern tip of Sweden and perhaps also at Narvik in Norway.

First we'll tickatty-tock down to 'that London' for a weekend with our son's family, before boarding the first Eurostar of the day to Brussel Zuid. Here we connect with 'Die Bahn' and a chain of ICEs via Köln (and perhaps also Hannover) to Hamburg for dinner and the Swedish EuroNight train to Stockholm. After a day in the City of Islands we take another 'Nattåg' operated by Norwegian Vy trains to the far north. I expect we'll awake more or less as our train leaves the frozen Baltic coast for the more deeply frozen interior and disembark late morning at Abisko on the Scandinavian watershed. Three days later we continue on the 'Arctic Train' to Narvik, following the route of the Ofoten Line, built in 1902 to haul rich reserves of Kiruna iron all-year-round to an ice-free Atlantic port. As I said, we're not taking bikes, but I'll poke around the carriages and ask a few questions about that while I'm there.

Unfortunately I couldn't persuade Helen to spend another four days and two nights on trains to get home, so we're flying back to Manchester in 1/4 of the time for 1/3 the money - but 1/10th of the fun and no adventure at all!
I believe Vy acquired some of the combined Couchette and bike carriages (with 20 bike spaces) that used to be used for DB City Night Line services. They have removed some of the bike hangers and replaced them with luggage racks and space for skis.

Will
Well: we're back and I'm able to report that on walking the length of both sleeper trains, I didn't find any bike storage space, as such, on either of them. I didn't explore Eurostar or the two German ICE trains we travelled in to Hamburg, asuming we know enough about those already.

The SJ train from Hamburg to Stockholm was particulary cramped. It was even hard to find space for two average suitcases in the three berth compartment shared by my wife and I - with NO third person. My case entirely filled the narrow gap between bunk and wall, so one had to step over it to get out. Panniers would at least slide under the bottom bunk, but what to do with a bike? Maybe, if one came equipped with hooks and ropes, it might be possible to suspend a bike from the high level luggage racks and then creep about underneath it, but two bikes? And I can't see how one would then access the upper bunk.

None of the Vy rolling stock gave any indication of ever having space for bikes, unless you count the ski cupboards at each end (or was it only one end?) of each couchette carriage. I asked a member of staff if summer travellers put bicycles in those, but they didn't think so, pointing out that there was no provision to hang by the front wheel, which is the only way to fit one or two bikes - maybe three at a pinch - in there. Again, I think you could do something with rope, or the ubiquitous for-everything-but... toestraps. The sleeping compartments were slightly more generous (or maybe had narrower beds). Whatever, I could squeeze between the bunk and my suitcase.

As for the journeys, I'd say they were interesting. Six days before the off I got the following text from SJ:
Hi! Your EuroNight train 346 2024-03-04 (JMZ5338J) has a new departure station; Hamburg Bergedorf station, due to track maintenance. The train will stop in Hamburg Hbf. Departure time for train 346 from Hamburg Bergedorf is 21:34. To get to Hamburg Bergedorf we refer you to S-Bahn from Hamburg Hbf.
This was followed by two more texts, first about how our sleeper car number had changed - no problem - and second about how the train
has a new carriage constellation without your sleeping car. We have reserved you a new couchette compartment 91-96 in carriage 22. Toilet is available in the end of your carriage. You will automatically be compensated 25% of the ticket price.
As the only toilet facilities in our booked second-class sleeper was a washbasin, WC being likewise down the corridor, the only thing concerning us about this change was the prospect of sharing with four others and as Helen had by then developed a bad cough, whether any of us would sleep!

Fortunately we had three or four hours in Hamburg, so I worked out where Bergedorf was and that we could easily get there on the S-bahn. But as the dining and time-killing opportunities looked much better around the Hauptbahnhof and as the train was supposed to be calling there anyway... I wasn't planning to schlep ourselves out to the bare and probably windswept platforms of Bergedorf. So we dined at a pub called Nagel (which I recommend, plus their own-brewed dark lager), as slowly as we reasonably could, then wandered back to the Hbf, where the information office was now less busy, so we thought it would be a good idea to make double sure that EN346 would be picking up there and exactly when. Fortunately (after saying yes of course it does) our informer checked for changes in the day's running order (or whatever it should be called) and could not find our train at all - except at Bergedorf. So off we went on the S-bahn, in 20 minutes leaving still another hour to wait, on a platform that was swept by a damp wind that chilled to the bone. Helen's cough was getting worse so we retreated to a kebab shop for coffee, returning to find a lot more people on the platform including some cheerful SJ train staff who checked a list and assured us that the last text was rubbish and we would get identical accommodation to that we'd booked. And so we did - but nevertheless received a 25% compensation payment from SJ! As for stopping at the Hbf to pick up... we shunted to and fro around Hamburg for at least an hour without stopping at any other Bahnhof as far as I could tell - never mind a Hauptbahnhof, so we were very glad we went to Bergedorf!

We were also glad to have a sightseeing day between trains, or what remains of a day after rolling in at nearer twelve than ten! Because Helen's cough was now worse, so the main sight we saw was the inside of a clinic where they very thoroughly, professionally and slowly diagnosed pneumonia, before prescribing the antibiotics she so obviously needed. There was just time for a very belated lunch-cum-dinner before boarding Vy Nattåg 94 at 18:08 for Abisko. Except it wasn't going all the way to Abisko. The inconvenient alteration to this service involved checking out of our sleeping accommodation at 05:30 and changing to an ordinary train with seats (and a sadly diminshed meals service) for the final six hours. Fortunately I'd guessed that the sleeper bistro's interesting choice of arctic-inspired meals might not be replicated on the other train and already stocked up with reindeer and moose salami snacks, plus porridge with lingen-berry sauce - that only needed hot water to serve.

The reason our sleeper didn't go all the way is that in December an iron-ore train derailed and tore up several hundred metres of track, somewhere between Abisko and Narvik. Throughout Jan and Feb Vy's website promised to reopen the line soon, but when it did re-open it was only to goods trains, passenger service being considered too risky on mended track that cannot be properly inspected when everything's covered in snow. Good decision: another ore train derailed (less destructively) a couple of weeks after re-opening. Sleeper carriages can't be turned around without a good deal of cleaning and provisioning, services that are available only at major stations, so with Narvik inaccessible, from Boden our empty carriages were sent to Lulea.

When the line closed in December, Vy immediately stopped selling tickets on that route and ran replacement buses for those who'd already got tickets, between Narvik and Bjorklijden - the next station beyond Abisko and as far as passenger trains could go. So we got to our base for the first three nights okay, but as I hadn't bought tickets already before the 17th December, we had no obvious way of reaching Narvik and our flight home. For this is wild and empty country with no public transport apart from the railway (that takes a completely different route than the road) on the Norwegian side of the border. An infrequent bus to a ski resort near the border, then a very expensive taxi to Narvik looked like our least bad option, until Helen found on Facebook a guy in Abisko who drives day trips to "The Norwegian Fjords" and was happy to take us one way for some cash in hand. More cash than the train fare, and I doubt we will ever see that most scenic section of the Arctic Circle Railway, but our broken transport chain was mended.

Apparently Vy are now selling tickets for their replacement bus service. So it's taken them three months to get their act together, but public transport between Kiruna and Narvik is restored.

The flight home wasn't exactly what I'd planned either. To have time for breakfast then catch a bus for the long drive to Narvik airport (which is at Evenes on the opposite side of the fjord, some 80km around by road) I'd booked an afternoon flight, with a sensible 3 hour connection in Oslo to arrive in Manchester that evening. But then SAS bumped us onto the morning flight, so we had to get up awfully early and miss breakfast to catch a bus at 6am (they're very infrequent) then spend a boringly long 6 hours in Oslo airport before our Manchester flight. Fortunately, when I explained this to the woman controlling entry to the SAS Lounge at Oslo, she surreptitiously let us in, so most of those hours were spent very comfortably with free food and drink.
Chris Juden
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by MrsHJ »

Best Laid plans and the stoic and sick brits coping. It sounds a bit of a faff tbh. Did you enjoy it overall?
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by CJ »

MrsHJ wrote: 22 Mar 2024, 6:40am Best Laid plans and the stoic and sick brits coping. It sounds a bit of a faff tbh. Did you enjoy it overall?
Yes, but not in parts. I think it's interesting how airlines cancel and bump people onto different flights than they paid for and mostly we just suck it up, but when trains do the same it's a big deal. Actually it is when there's no other transport short of a very expensive taxi! To be honest, successfully overcoming all the obstacles did add to the pleasure. And I did get to climb a mountain, and also showshoe within sight of moose and an arctic hare. Helen didn't get so much out of the trip, but can at least tick the Northern Lights off her bucket list, not that she has one AFAIK.
Chris Juden
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by jgurney »

CJ wrote: 13 Dec 2023, 7:01pm Slightly off-topic, because we're not taking bikes, but in March my wife and I are making a bit of a sleeper-train saga, involving not one but two nights on the rails
Sounds good, hope it goes well.
We've never yet done that, but have made a few trips with consecutive nights on a sleeper train and an overnight ferry, such as Harwich - Hook follwed by a day in Amsterdam then the sleeper to Vienna, Patras to Bari then Bari - Milan sleeper or Lerwick - Aberdeen then a Dundee - London sleeper.

We had an eye on the two-night Paris - Moscow train but then first covid then Putin seem to have ruled that out for some years. Maybe one day there will be a Vienna - Kiev sleeper. I can envisage a surge of interest in Western tourism to the Ukraine once stability is restored.
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by Jdsk »

scragend wrote: 26 Jan 2024, 1:10pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 Jan 2024, 11:18am
Jdsk wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 3:55pm "Night train extended to link Brussels and Amsterdam to Prague":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... ith-prague

From 25 March 2024.

PS: "European Sleeper is also planning a winter night train between Amsterdam and the French Alps, as well as an EU-backed Amsterdam-Barcelona service launching in 2025. More sleeping cars should increase comfort and the travel experience, it said."
The Man has:
Bikes are carried on the European Sleeper for €19. They are carried in a large bike compartment in the seats car at one end of the train.
https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-route ... ravel_tips

Will this be the same to Prague?
The Prague train is just the existing Berlin one, but it will carry on to Prague, so yes.

I've been doing dummy bookings for the summer as far as Prague with a bike and the web site will let you do it.
Thanks again.

I've just asked about the sleeper compartments:

Q: Is it possible to book a sleeper for two people with no-one else sharing it?

A: yes thats possible, While making your booking, choose for the option "double" than the compartment is just for the 2 of you

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: European trains - sleeper service

Post by Jdsk »

The Man on the new carriages from Brussels to Prague, complete with video:
https://www.seat61.com/news.htm

Jonathan
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