I don’t know where they’ll come from, because the standard of accident investigation on roads is way, way behind the equivalents in air, marine, and rail, where the whole emphasis is on the discovery of facts, and learning lessons to minimise the probability of recurrence, rather than serving up snippets to support defence or prosecution.expert assessors
Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
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Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
Yes, it would be a big change in approach.Nearholmer wrote: ↑28 Sep 2022, 7:00pmI don’t know where they’ll come from, because the standard of accident investigation on roads is way, way behind the equivalents in air, marine, and rail, where the whole emphasis is on the discovery of facts, and learning lessons to minimise the probability of recurrence, rather than serving up snippets to support defence or prosecution.expert assessors
What happened to the new "Road Collision Investigation Branch"?... found it:
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... ranch-rcib
Jonathan
Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
It was the term privilege I was comparing. Not the burden of proof.Jdsk wrote: ↑28 Sep 2022, 6:56pmWhat I describe there would remove the need for a criminal conviction: "Completely different burden of proof".jois wrote: ↑28 Sep 2022, 6:52pmI suspect it's a long debate. But driving as a privilege is what we have now. Your licence can be removed for any criminal offence not just driving, a privilege with criminal sanctionJdsk wrote: ↑28 Sep 2022, 6:45pm
It would.
I, and some others, think that many driving offences would be better handled in the domain of "privileges to use the road in this way" rather than criminality. That would have some similarities to "privilege to fly an aircraft in this way". Completely different burden of proof, expert assessors with appeals processes, and sanctions that are predominantly withdrawal of those privileges, supervised and conditional return of them, and appropriate testing. And the main purpose of those sanctions would be avoidance of future harm rather than punishment.
Jonathan
Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
Yes they tend to push the boat out with100s of passengers, not sure they are so keen with a jet ski accidentNearholmer wrote: ↑28 Sep 2022, 7:00pmI don’t know where they’ll come from, because the standard of accident investigation on roads is way, way behind the equivalents in air, marine, and rail, where the whole emphasis is on the discovery of facts, and learning lessons to minimise the probability of recurrence, rather than serving up snippets to support defence or prosecution.expert assessors
Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
depends, I remember reading a MAIB report covering a yachting collision & sinking where a single member of the crew died, that went into alot of the kind of detail and safety recommendations youd expect from a major rail or air disaster.
Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
You maybe right, they do seem to put quite a lot of effort in to serious road accidents judging by how long they close the road for
Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
+1 I'd like to see a much more forensic and detailed analysis of RTA's involving bicycles and cars. There should be a government led steering group to implement recommendations on a national level, as it seems that at the moment a lot of this stuff just gets swept up into a folder marked 'do not disturb'.
Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
What do you think of the proposal for the "Road Safety Investigation Branch"?Dingdong wrote: ↑4 Oct 2022, 6:12am +1 I'd like to see a much more forensic and detailed analysis of RTA's involving bicycles and cars. There should be a government led steering group to implement recommendations on a national level, as it seems that at the moment a lot of this stuff just gets swept up into a folder marked 'do not disturb'.
"Deepening our understanding of road traffic collisions and how best to address them. Government response"
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... sponse.pdf
Thanks
Jonathan
Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
Driver given 9 months custody.
`He will serve half before being released`.
2 year ban.
Re-test required.
Update here: https://thestrayferret.co.uk/harrogate- ... f-cyclist/
`He will serve half before being released`.
2 year ban.
Re-test required.
Update here: https://thestrayferret.co.uk/harrogate- ... f-cyclist/
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Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
A report on the BBC news website a couple of days ago about an air traffic emergency which began on 19 September 2022 reminded me of thisJdsk wrote: ↑28 Sep 2022, 7:06pmYes, it would be a big change in approach.Nearholmer wrote: ↑28 Sep 2022, 7:00pmI don’t know where they’ll come from, because the standard of accident investigation on roads is way, way behind the equivalents in air, marine, and rail, where the whole emphasis is on the discovery of facts, and learning lessons to minimise the probability of recurrence, rather than serving up snippets to support defence or prosecution.expert assessors
What happened to the new "Road Collision Investigation Branch"?... found it:
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... ranch-rcib
Jonathan
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68436161
In my (layman's) terms, a plane operated by Aer Lingus' domestic service Emerald Airlines had some sort of fault warning during landing at Leeds/Bradford "International" Airport. With none of the company's engineers working there and the intermittant nature of the fault, the aircrew agreed to fly the return flight to Belfast where it could be checked. (Drivers who have had an unexplained dashboard warning light might be familiar with this. approach.)
Anyway, on the return flight multiple warning messages appeared as the plane was landing and the aircrew had serious difficulties making a safe landing not least because there was no accepted way of dealing with what happened. I think the circumlocution in the report of the investigation means that in future, aircrew will not be asked to do something so obviously dangerous
.Due to the "sudden magnitude of failure", the flight crew were said to have experienced "a degree of natural startle and surprise, which characteristically affected aspects of their communication and information processing".
"The ambiguous nature, and unclear source, of the technical symptoms caused persisting stress and surprise while the flight crew attempted to re-evaluate the situation," the report continued.
The report said Aer Lingus would adopt a "rule-based structure for situation management" to help crew "manage startle and rebuild situation awareness"
Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
I report dangerous drivers to
https://gosafesnap.wales/
especially phone users
You would think that now that so many cars have dashcams (I have 2 in front, one angled to oncoming one straight front 1 rear with TWO signs on the car, TAILGATING CAMERA, TAILGATERS ARE REPORTED) idiots would stop driving like they do
I occasionally get tailgated but only until they read the sign and back off LOL
https://gosafesnap.wales/
especially phone users
You would think that now that so many cars have dashcams (I have 2 in front, one angled to oncoming one straight front 1 rear with TWO signs on the car, TAILGATING CAMERA, TAILGATERS ARE REPORTED) idiots would stop driving like they do
I occasionally get tailgated but only until they read the sign and back off LOL
AUTISTIC and proud
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Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving
This seems as good a place as any for this.
Flight chaos made worse by engineer delay, report finds
... Tim Alderslade, the chief executive of Airlines UK said the interim report "contains damning evidence that NATS' basic resilience planning and procedures were wholly inadequate and fell well below the standard that should be expected for national infrastructure of this importance". ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68563068
Flight chaos made worse by engineer delay, report finds
... Tim Alderslade, the chief executive of Airlines UK said the interim report "contains damning evidence that NATS' basic resilience planning and procedures were wholly inadequate and fell well below the standard that should be expected for national infrastructure of this importance". ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68563068