Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

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toomsie
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Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by toomsie »

I have always wanted to know what a close pass looks like from a drivers point of view. I am sure that on average, drivers give parked cars less space then a moving cyclist. I am also sure that they give less space to oncoming traffice even bigger vehicles such as HGVs.
beardy
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by beardy »

I am sure that on average, drivers give parked cars less space then a moving cyclist. I am also sure that they give less space to oncoming traffice even bigger vehicles such as HGVs.


Well, I certainly do. Today most of my passes were like that as they normally are, however you get at least one idiot per day. Today it was a Mercedes that passed me at about 60mph while keeping on my side of the white lines, despite us being the only vehicles on the road in sight. I doubt he would have done that to a parked car or HGV. He didnt even have to slow down or deviate by more than 5 degrees from a straight course in order to have done a safe overtake.
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Vantage
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by Vantage »

I've always thought the picture of a vw bora passing a cyclist with the caption "Give cyclists at least as much room as you would other vehicles when passing" (or something like that) a bit silly given that most motorists pass other cars within inches regardless of whether they are moving or not.

The sooner we're legally allowed handlebar mounted gatling guns the better. Then we'd be given lots of space :D
Bill


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GrumpyCyclist
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by GrumpyCyclist »

But think of the weight :(
Weight 8th July 2015 111.9Kg : Weight now 93.8Kg. Mostly due to cycling. Wish I'd started much sooner :( #LoveTheBike
Tonyf33
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by Tonyf33 »

Vantage wrote:I've always thought the picture of a vw bora passing a cyclist with the caption "Give cyclists at least as much room as you would other vehicles when passing" (or something like that) a bit silly given that most motorists pass other cars within inches regardless of whether they are moving or not.

The sooner we're legally allowed handlebar mounted gatling guns the better. Then we'd be given lots of space :D

As per above, you're in the wrong era, paint stripping lasers is the way to go, small, light and fit on handlebars without upsetting handling 8)

I was in the car with mater and her life partner on a lazy Sunday drive to the coast to grab some food. he's a reasonable sort and used to drive wagons of various sizes for a living. We've had various discussions about the road and how often people leave cyclists so little space and he agrees. On the way he overtakes a cyclist with about 2.5ft gap, we were probably doing mid 30s in a 40 zone (slowish for this road due to weight of traffic I think) but I was in the passenger seat and thought you know for lesser experienced/slower moving cyclists that wouldn't be all that pleasant.
It was far from being a rubbish overtake but all the same using a portion of the other side of the road (even with oncoming traffic) when it's good and wide on an open A road is perfectly safe & doable, using indicators to signal to those behind and those oncoming that you are overtaking, not just passing should be drummed in at the learner stage (but isn't).
I wasn't going to kick up a fuss because it wasn't that bad, just could have been better, but I think it can be difficult to judge distance between your nearside and a moving cyclist, so basically the more room you can give the better. The problem is a large % of motorists think X gap is safe/ok when in fact it can be terrifically un-nerving or even worse you get hit.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Small pulse jet on the rack?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
TonyR
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by TonyR »

We are quite happy though to pass cars etc with inches of gap and sometimes at quite some speed. And we tend to do the same to pedestrians. The difference is we are in control of the gap, not someone else. I do wonder though whether that conditions drivers to subconsciously think a close pass in OK.
aspiringcyclist
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by aspiringcyclist »

TonyR wrote:We are quite happy though to pass cars etc with inches of gap and sometimes at quite some speed. And we tend to do the same to pedestrians. The difference is we are in control of the gap, not someone else. I do wonder though whether that conditions drivers to subconsciously think a close pass in OK.


Another difference is weight and speed ( how many people cycle 30mph?).
Jon Lucas
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by Jon Lucas »

TonyR wrote:We are quite happy though to pass cars etc with inches of gap and sometimes at quite some speed. And we tend to do the same to pedestrians. The difference is we are in control of the gap, not someone else. I do wonder though whether that conditions drivers to subconsciously think a close pass in OK.


This is the important point. In situations where two vehicles or a pedestrian and vehicle are travelling at different speeds, and one wishes to pass the other, the gap will be controlled by the faster one overtaking, who will feel in control. That is precisely why many pedestrians, especially the elderly and less mobile, do not like shared use space, because they have lost control of it, and why many cyclists feel intimidated and threatened by the actions of some drivers.

The solution on roads is for cyclists to take control of these situations from the front, and ride in such a way that they determine when overtaking is safe to take place. That is far easier to write than to do, but it is the reality.

I had a couple of odd incidents happen in the last week that are slightly related to this.

a) A car overtook me very closely at some speed when there was nothing coming the other way, and then drove across to the other side of the road ahead of me before going back to his side of the road. I got the feeling the driver just mistook the length of the gap between him and me as he approached and started to move out from me far too late.

b) Yesterday, I watched as a car overtook me quite safely then pull over right up to the edge of the road (which was a field hedge) and continue driving almost brushing up against the hedgerow. It was very odd, as they were in a line of cars, with all the others taking a far more normal line in the middle of their lane. Perhaps we need a campaign against motorists driving in the gutter? :D
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

TonyR wrote:We are quite happy though to pass cars etc with inches of gap and sometimes at quite some speed. And we tend to do the same to pedestrians. The difference is we are in control of the gap, not someone else. I do wonder though whether that conditions drivers to subconsciously think a close pass in OK.


You might pass pedestrians at speed, I don't - although I did freak out a dog a bit a couple of days ago, because I stopped a bit fast and slightly locked a wheel. Stayed to talk to the dog for a while, but he wasn't having it.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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Vantage
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by Vantage »

[XAP]Bob wrote:You might pass pedestrians at speed, I don't


Same here. Although I have witnessed and experienced it that alot of cyclists do pass stupidly close at stupid speeds.
Happy to report that both my girls slow down considerably and pass pedestrians and especially dogs with as much room as they can give. Even my 9 yr old has the decency to say thank you and give a smile to those who move to the side for her after ringing the bell and passing responsibly :mrgreen:
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
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kylecycler
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by kylecycler »

Away back when the frame in the avatar was a brand new Carlton 531 TEN, in 1977, it was kitted out with a flourescent flag on a 15-inch-long white pole attached to the top of the right seatstay by a sprung bracket. There was a clip just below the flag which clipped on to the bottom of the seatstay when you weren't 'using' it. The pole was plastic or nylon, the bracket and spring were galvanized steel. The flag was rigid so that it hung down vertically and would therefore be visible to drivers when it was 'deployed', even in the airflow.

Does anyone remember these? I kept it for years, I might still have it, but I'm afraid I might have thrown it out just recently (it would have been easier to post a photo! :D). It only had a psychological effect on drivers, if any, but I think it kind of worked if only because it said, "I'm concerned that you might pass too close." That should be stating the bleeding obvious but of course it isn't - an awful lot of mistakes drivers make are pure thoughtlessness.
ian s
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by ian s »

Minor point, but cars don't have a point of view, but the drivers do. I agree with the previous post that many drivers do not ride cycles, and simply don't realise the effect their close passing has. However there is a significant proportion of car drivers who simply resent having to share the road with cycles, and pass close to show this resentment
reohn2
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by reohn2 »

ian s wrote:Minor point, but cars don't have a point of view, but the drivers do. I agree with the previous post that many drivers do not ride cycles, and simply don't realise the effect their close passing has. However there is a significant proportion of car drivers who simply resent having to share the road with cycles, and pass close to show this resentment


And it's very difficult to tell one from the other.
Motor vehicle drivers must pass a driving test to use the roads,but it's amazing how quickly they forget what they learned to pass that test,deliberately or otherwise.
The authorities and powers that be do nothing to stop the continuing abuse of cyclists either by continued driver education and or punishment.
That's life in UK society if you ride a bicycle on the road,you're considered a second class citizen by a significant number of drivers :evil:

Edited for typos and clarity.
Last edited by reohn2 on 7 Sep 2015, 12:35pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AlaninWales
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Re: Cars Point Of View: Close pass.

Post by AlaninWales »

Jon Lucas wrote:I had a couple of odd incidents happen in the last week that are slightly related to this.

a) A car overtook me very closely at some speed when there was nothing coming the other way, and then drove across to the other side of the road ahead of me before going back to his side of the road. I got the feeling the driver just mistook the length of the gap between him and me as he approached and started to move out from me far too late.
I'll do that quite a lot in the car, when approaching a left-hand bend. Since there is nothing coming the other way, there is nothing to be gained (and some safety to be lost) by moving quickly back to the left side of the road. The same on a straight road with junctions/entrances on the left.
Jon Lucas wrote:b) Yesterday, I watched as a car overtook me quite safely then pull over right up to the edge of the road (which was a field hedge) and continue driving almost brushing up against the hedgerow. It was very odd, as they were in a line of cars, with all the others taking a far more normal line in the middle of their lane. Perhaps we need a campaign against motorists driving in the gutter? :D
Again, something I will commonly do in a car when approaching a right hand bend. Keeping left maximises view through the bend and is therefore safer. The common assumption that the safest/correct place for a car is the middle of the lane is (like 'bikes should keep left') simply wrong.

Any competent driver should know where the left side of the car is. Unfortunately it is not something most drivers practice. Giving the cyclist at least 'enough room to fall over' is a handy rule of thumb IMO (one that my father used to tell me).
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