Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

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Flinders
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Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by Flinders »

That cycle route looks like about the worst I've seen - slow, very dangerous for bikes, dangerous for pedestrians and passengers.
If they had sat down and worked at it for a year solid they couldn't have come up with anything much worse.
Flinders
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 6:47pm

Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by Flinders »

boliston wrote:Even though I cycle I would much rather see trams than busses in cities as a lot of people regard buses as an "inferior" form of transport so stick with their cars, but trams don't seem to have the same sort of poor image that busses have and they are much more pleasant to use than busses.

I notice in many continental towns there are a lot of trams AND a lot of cyclists so it shows that the two can happily co-exist.



Maybe they're better are sorting out how the two live together rather better than we are...... :|
tyreon
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Joined: 4 Oct 2012, 4:39pm

Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by tyreon »

Garysmerdonwhite: Thanks for confirmation: ride in the middle of tramtracks. It's safer.

For the less confident cyclist...those pavement/cycleways look killers! Come to an incoming/exiting minor road(some it seems no more than 15 yards from another)cars zooming out and you are looking at dialling 999...if you have a phone and survive.

I might be wrong here: are there give way signs at end of pavement cycleway for the cyclist? Or any for the motorist to give way to the cyclist? Then,do we need 'stand alone triangle signs: GIVE WAY! If installed...what an eye sore!

Marks out of 10 for the tram project taking into consideration cyclists: 2/10

For the tram: 1/10. No one I have asked wanted it. Could have had trolley buses at one tenth of the cost. And no greasy tram tracks for unwanted spills and broken bones!
The fat commuter
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Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by The fat commuter »

We've got trams in Sheffield. Part of my commute takes me along the tram tracks here:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.40189 ... 312!8i6656

As you can see, there isn't really that much of a gap down the side of the tracks - definitely secondary position - but that tends to be the position that I ride. The main problem that I find isn't the actual trams but cars. It's really strange driving with two wheels on the track and two wheels off. Some drivers drive with their nearside wheels to the left of the lefthand track - blocking me (and other cyclists) whilst some drive to the right of the lefthand track - leaving a nice lane to cycle along.

Fortunately my route doesn't take me through any stations but on the occasions where I have had to negotiate them I can honestly say that they are a real pita. You have to get a decent angle to cross from the one side of the track to another. Riding down the centre of the tracks isn't always an option for a whole journey.

The worst thing that I find is that because you have to cross the tracks at a steep angle, it can confuse vehicles behind you. I have to cross the tracks here:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.40062 ... 312!8i6656
I start positioned roughly where the offside rear wheel is of the silver Vivaro van and end up by the nearside wheel of the Luton van. If I don't move far enough into the middle of the road before crossing the tracks then my angle would be too shallow - but too far and vehicles think about undertaking. I did have a moped pass me on the left there once. I don't normally chase down drivers but I caught him up and calmly called him an idiot - he knew it too.

Once you get to the left of the tracks you're then heading for the kerb so a slight flick of the handlebars to straighten up is needed - the thing being is that drivers don't realise that you're going to do it and overtake at that point. Very hard to explain.
onlyconnect
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Joined: 19 Jul 2015, 11:15am

Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by onlyconnect »

Hi – to respond to Tim’s questions.


Many thanks Gary for the detailed response.

Tim
alanesq
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Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by alanesq »

As stated above, the cars behind you pose a very serious risk when trying to negotiate tram tracks.
This video shows what I find to be a very common event when joining the tram tracks at either end of this road in Beeston.

https://youtu.be/LMEpvxWSEmc

i.e. just as you make the final turn to go down the road you find you cycle straight in to the path of an impatient/confused car trying to pass you.
karlt
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Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by karlt »

I have to cross the Sheffield tram tracks here: https://goo.gl/maps/IcSDq

Try going across at an oblique angle and the overtaking vehicles will take you out. It's hideous.
tyreon
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Joined: 4 Oct 2012, 4:39pm

Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by tyreon »

I am not too sure of the compo(if any)awarded to any negligence that amounts to an injury caused thru no-fault-of-your-own,say tram track accident.

First you gotta take on the council...and a football team of lawyers(out to discredit you in anyway they can). Then the biased and hand-picked judiciary.

When you've lost your house,your wife has deserted you with the kids(cos o holding true to your beliefs in getting proper justice and compo)...well,then you might be awarded,say,£2k for the loss of your arm,£20k for a full wheelchair job.(Remember the bloke who took on PC World about his computer? 5 year legal battle. He spends/loses £10k,is awarded £200)Wotta comedy! If it's a wheelchair job you then have to face IDS!!!! You seen the recent Kill-List for DWP!!!

The nabobs say compo mustn't encourage/reward sustained injury. Anyone here fancy selling their arm for £2k?

British Justice: Oftentimes the worst in the world
onlyconnect
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Joined: 19 Jul 2015, 11:15am

Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by onlyconnect »

Serious incident yesterday where a cyclist slipped on a tram rail and was struck by a car. Cyclist now critically ill in hospital according to MP Anna Soubry.

Tim
MikeF
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Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by MikeF »

onlyconnect wrote:Serious incident yesterday where a cyclist slipped on a tram rail and was struck by a car. Cyclist now critically ill in hospital according to MP Anna Soubry.

Tim
What you've shown looks an appalling design - about everything is wrong that could be wrong - same mistakes repeated over and over again. :evil: The MP should be made to cycle it - that is the only way there will be a quick result in improvements.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
PhilWhitehurst
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Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by PhilWhitehurst »

That really is atrocious, how can you call yourself and traffic planner and come up with that? Ride between the tram lanes, holding your position so no one tries to overtake. Those pics should be sent to facility of the month.
onlyconnect
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Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by onlyconnect »

MikeF wrote:What you've shown looks an appalling design - about everything is wrong that could be wrong - same mistakes repeated over and over again. :evil: The MP should be made to cycle it - that is the only way there will be a quick result in improvements.


Problem is I really don't know how it can be improved without being completely reworked.

Tim
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661-Pete
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Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by 661-Pete »

I didn't read this thread earlier, sorry, so coming in late to this one.

I'm most uncomfortable about the idea of riding between the tram tracks. It only needs for some wally (in a tyred vehicle, not a tram, I mean) to attempt a close pass: we've all had that, haven't we? The cyclist's natural instinct is to veer a bit to the left, to avoid the collision. That of course would take them straight onto the rail. Not good!

No, short of guerrilla warfare (sneak out at dead of night with a barrowload of quick-setting cement, and fill in the grooves :twisted: ), I'd seriously consider staying on the pavement for the entire length of this street, and be damned with the Law! If prosecuted, I'd like to see how a good barrister, well briefed by the cycling lobby, argues the case in court. The pavements look wide enough, at any rate. Of course, this option is only for the slower cyclist.

Better, I think, especially for those who want to keep up a good pace, is to seek out an alternative route, tram-free. I don't know the area, but checking out Google Maps shows Queens Road, a little way to the south and apparently free of trams. OK, it's a main road and may be just as busy. Personally, I'd rather use a busy road without tram rails, than a less-busy road with them. And it looks like you'd only add a few hundred yards extra to your journey.

But this answer isn't for everyone, maybe.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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661-Pete
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Re: Bike provision on Beeston tram route and a question

Post by 661-Pete »

onlyconnect wrote:Serious incident yesterday where a cyclist slipped on a tram rail and was struck by a car. Cyclist now critically ill in hospital according to MP Anna Soubry.

Tim

Article about it here. And, by an appalling coincidence, that looks like the precise spot where your first photo was taken.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
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