Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

[[XAP]Bob]

Maybe she couldn't pull out because of following traffic, and maybe the pedestrian hadn't clearly even her by that point...

[reohn2]

So it isn't swinging like it would if he was walking. It's either in his pocket or hooked in his rucsac. He isn't doing anything with his hands to indicate he is intending to knock her off. She has correctly read from his body language that he wasn't ceding priority to her. I've had peds do the same thing to me when I've been in a car.

He could've had his fist clenched ready to hit her.
Admittedly that's speculation,but then much of the initial altercation is,though something caused her to say "don't try and knock me off"

I've no idea what she has done with her hands but whatever it was it has annoyed him. Maybe just passing very close in front of him was enough. Totla over reaction by him of course as he had invited the close pass.

Something's annoyed him I agree,but was it in the first instance or reaction to his initial action?

TBH his complete overreaction seems to indicate this individual has serious anger management problems to do what he did and should cost him dearly IMHO.

[mercalia]

Apparently he has handed himself in. According to the paper the charges and any penalty will be related to the damage and injury he caused. As there was very little perhaps he will be let off? That principle seems wrong to me because she could have been injured badly, why doesnt the law work on that principle?

Al

u can see his ugly mug here -

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/25/man-pushes-cyclist-into-london-traffic-metropolitan-police?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

[Psamathe]

u can see his ugly mug here -

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/25/man-pushes-cyclist-into-london-traffic-metropolitan-police?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

From the article

Paul Kitson from the CTC, a cycling charity, and a solicitor with law firm Slater and Gordon, said: “Whilst the film clip is shocking this is unfortunately not an isolated incident.

“In my experience as a cycle injury lawyer I have come across examples of cyclists being deliberately pushed off their bikes by passengers from passing cars, motorists attempting to push a cyclist into oncoming traffic and even using their vehicle as a weapon.

“When a pedestrian deliberately pushes a cyclist off a bike this is a criminal act. The appropriate offence depends upon the extent of the injury.”

That's going to help encourage the non-cycling public to get that old bike out and start cycling.

Or he might have said e.g. Unfortunately not an isolated incident but on balance the vast majority of cyclists ride all over the place regularly and quite safely and never experience such aggression (or similar) - which would also have been quite true.

Ian

[kwackers]

Except she didn't choose to publish it. The Met did, and only to identify the perpetrator. Get your facts straight, otherwise this discussion makes little sense.

The point still stands. She was confident enough to hand it in to the police, therefore she was confident she did no wrong.
Don't get me wrong, the current view is that she did no wrong as drivers who overtake too close think they've done no wrong and so on.
This is the entire point of my post.

Rule 163: "Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should: a/ not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake..." And so on. There's even a picture...

A picture showing an ideal situation and not a legal requirement, there's no actual specification for a 'close' overtake and therefore no prosecutions. As I said one mans overtake etc etc...

You can argue this as long as you like, the reality of it is if there's someone in the carriageway common sense (if not a legal requirement) requires you to at the very least 'proceed with caution' and not take on the "I have right of way" type nonsense that passes for road sense these days.

[jan19]

FWIW, this is my take on this...

I have a crossing on my way home where I constantly have pedestrians "jump" a red light in front of me. The lights are pedestrian ones, and its crossing a road in the town centre where its a bus/bike/taxi thoroughfare only. If there's no bus coming, then they just wander out. I don't stop. I would if I thought I was going to hit someone, but over the years I've developed a 6th sense and make eye contact with those still on the pavement to the left. If they're coming from the right, I keep going so they have to stop to let me go. I'm not trying to hit anyone/ cause an incident, just to gently assert my right to pass. If the lights are red, I stop. So I'm afraid I don't agree the cyclist in the video should have stopped, unless she was otherwise going to hit the pedestrian (not clear either way I don't think).

Secondly, to my mind that comment of hers about being knocked off is significant - why would she say that unless he'd singled clear intent? Again, not clear from the video.

I agree with those who feel this probably wouldn't have happened to a man. I'm very small, and a teenage boy could easily knock me off my bike. The only thing I would have done differently would have been to increase my speed after the incident to get away! I doubt hubby, at 6 feet plus would have been similarly threatened. I really don't want to get into a gender discussion, to me the fact that this has reached the national news is because the cyclist (being a woman and therefore likely to be smaller than a man) is seen as particularly vulnerable.

Sadly, I suspect the pedestrian is proudly boasting to his friends that he "taught the cyclist a lesson", will receive no more than a slap on the wrist, and that since the incident there is one less cyclist on our streets.

Jan

[reohn2]

Whenever I hear,read or wittness something like this,I tend to ask myself if this sort of thing happens much or at all in other European countries?
In the countries where I've travelled people don't seem to get as excited and agitated as they do in the UK,they may honk their horns in a traffic jam but that seems to be as far as it gets,I've never seen the sort of behaviour that I've witnessed or read about in this country,generally people tend to be more calm and less given to overt anger/gesticulation and physical violence some of which is a regular occurrence on UK roads,between motorists and especially toward cyclists.
It could be the too many rats in a cage scenario,work pressures(we work the longest hours in Europe I believe),lack of meaningful police force,the class system played out on the roads,or the egocentric,me myself I and no one else matters atitude,etc,or a combination of those things and more besides,drug taking springs to mind .
Whatever it is it makes for a more stressful life,which ain't good for anyone.....

[kuba]

The point still stands. She was confident enough to hand it in to the police, therefore she was confident she did no wrong.

Yes I can see that your points stand whatever the facts, which you got wrong on both counts (no, she did not publish the footage but instead made a criminal complaint so speculations about about her self-righteousness are neither here nor there; and yes, close passes are against the Highway Code in principle, whatever the particulars which I'm well aware of). Oh well.

I tend to ask myself if this sort of thing happens much or at all in other European countries?

Depends which country I guess, there's more of that in some countries and less in others. In my experience a strong sense of individualism and a lack of thinking in social terms in countries like the UK or Poland contribute to roads feeling more dangerous than they are in, say France whether there seems to be more empathy to other road users. Even in the UK I notice the difference between Scotland and England, but up north they're way less congested and that certainly plays a role too.

[reohn2]

Depends which country I guess, there's more of that in some countries and less in others. In my experience a strong sense of individualism and a lack of thinking in social terms in countries like the UK or Poland contribute to roads feeling more dangerous than they are in, say France whether there seems to be more empathy to other road users. Even in the UK I notice the difference between Scotland and England, but up north they're way less congested and that certainly plays a role too.

I haven't visited Poland,but not found any problems in France,Italy(mostly Tuscany),NL,Belgium or Portugal.
I live in GM area where sometimes it's like a war of attrition and not just in the towns or cities but on wide open roads with plenty of space,the Cheshire lanes can be a minefield.
Things tend to be a bit more relaxed when I'm north of Preston,but there can be the occasional nutter.North Wales can be relaxing though I/we only tend to go outside the mad 6 or 7 week holiday season.

It's a rare day that I don't get some goon trying his her best to do me some harm either intentionally or by just plain bad driving,with some antics being downright mad.

[maxcherry]

He's handed himself into the police

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... ral-188489

[elPedro666]

He's handed himself into the police

Let's hope they deal with the scum to the full extent of the law and in doing so demonstrate that cyclists are not second (third, fourth, fifth...) class citizens.

I'll be amazed if they do though.

[Mick F]

He's handed himself into the police ..........

This is nearly FOUR months after the incident.
I have to ask why the video has only gone public now?
What has happened since 1st May?

Have the police been sitting on this as "too difficult" and someone somewhere has prodded them into action?

[kwackers]

Yes I can see that your points stand whatever the facts, which you got wrong on both counts (no, she did not publish the footage but instead made a criminal complaint so speculations about about her self-righteousness are neither here nor there; and yes, close passes are against the Highway Code in principle, whatever the particulars which I'm well aware of). Oh well.

Which proves nothing other than she was confident the video showed she did nothing wrong otherwise she wouldn't have handed it in - so why does that prove my point wrong? Nobody hands over video footage that is self incriminating.
I think you completely missed the point I was making, I don't expect her to think she did anything wrong just as I don't expect the majority of motorists who perform close passes to think they've done anything wrong.
IME watch enough car/cyclist/pedestrian interactions and you quickly realise that the perceived order is car->bike->pedestrian and this isn't just when one group considers themselves to be in the right, it's also when the 'victims' are behaving correctly, look at how often you see rule 170 violated by both cars and bicycles for example.

FWIW the highway code is so hairy fairy the 'close pass' rule is pointless - but imo that's another argument. My fundamental point was that pretty much the first thing the highway code does is remove your 'right of way' and point out that your primary responsibility is to avoid an accident.

This is also what the highway code says about 'green lights'.
"GREEN means you may go on if the way is clear. Take special care if you intend to turn left or right and give way to pedestrians who are crossing."
You'll note the conditional: "way is clear" and the "give way to pedestrians", you'll also note there's no exclusions for pedestrians who started crossing whilst the lights were against them.

[Psamathe]

He's handed himself into the police ..........

This is nearly FOUR months after the incident.
I have to ask why the video has only gone public now?
What has happened since 1st May?

Have the police been sitting on this as "too difficult" and someone somewhere has prodded them into action?

I understood (from news reports) that they had failed to identify the individual so "going public" was in effect a "who is he" appeal to the public.

But it does make one wonder what they have been doing to find the guy since May. Cynic that I am I suspect that the case had been sitting in a file but remaining open and it hit some time limit for review of open cases (e.g. cases remaining open for <x> weeks are automatically reviewed). But that is complete cynicism on my part not based on anything factual.

Ian

[reohn2]

He's handed himself into the police ..........

This is nearly FOUR months after the incident.
I have to ask why the video has only gone public now?
What has happened since 1st May?

Have the police been sitting on this as "too difficult" and someone somewhere has prodded them into action?

I understood (from news reports) that they had failed to identify the individual so "going public" was in effect a "who is he" appeal to the public.

But it does make one wonder what they have been doing to find the guy since May. Cynic that I am I suspect that the case had been sitting in a file but remaining open and it hit some time limit for review of open cases (e.g. cases remaining open for <x> weeks are automatically reviewed). But that is complete cynicism on my part not based on anything factual.

Ian

And I'd bet if the cyclist had been injured requiring hospital treatment, either by passing car or due to the fall the police would've released the video sooner.
Which in itself opens up another can of worms,ie; are there enough police to deal with the crimes being committed? Does the perpetrator make a hobby of attacking defenceless people on the street? And if so has he attacked anyone else meanwhile who perhaps didn't have a camera on them so can't ID him.
Do we as a society want to be under threat of violence on the street,with only any urgency afforded to those victims who have been seriously injured,due to resources being evermore limited because we don't value a safe,secure environment enough to pay more taxes for better policing?