Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

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Valbrona
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by Valbrona »

These women want equality. Well, if that had been a man pushed off a bike in Whitechapel like in that video the response from the Stasi would have been in the 'lame' category.
I should coco.
reohn2
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by reohn2 »

kwackers wrote:But to my mind the first issue is more interesting in particularly what it means to our attitudes on the road.
So there's a person in the carriageway. Doesn't matter whether they should be there or not, whether they crossed on red or teleported in. They're fairly obviously there, they're fairly obviously crossing and at that point they've been crossing long enough for approaching traffic to make the decision to back off a little and let them cross.
The very first thing the highway code says is you have to avoid accidents, not that you should insist on your 'right of way'. Avoiding accidents in this instance means allowing someone on the carriageway to vacate it even if it means slowing slightly.
To me this one incidence is part of the bigger picture of how we see things in this country with the old 'might is right' attitude. If I'm bigger or faster I have right of way, if you're in my way rather than yield I'll simply bully my way through.
If I were that cyclist tbh once I'd calmed down I'd have put it down to experience and binned the video but I suspect they think their cycling is above reproach.

I pretty much agree but,and it's a big one.
Right at the beginning we hear the cyclist say "please don't try and knock me off" and an response from the pedestrian which isn't discernible(by which time he's out of shot).
Why would she say that?
Could it be that she saw him raising his hand in an effort to push her off ?
Could it be she tried to fend him off?
This could be the link to the to second incident that he was so incensed by her defending herself that he was hell bent on getting his own back.
Feeling he'd been wronged firstly by her not stopping for him and then when(if) he tried to pusher(off/out of his way)she responded,either by a gesticulation or by merely trying to protect herself.
He then looses it,chases her down,determined to do her some damage.
Whilst I'll be the first to agree we live in an unnecessarily aggresive society,at no time in the video does she sound aggressive nor would I term her riding as aggressive.
Which is more than can be said for him and,call me old fashioned if you will ,but especially with her being a woman and an easy target for his aggression.
All because he couldn't cross the road when he wanted to.

Edited for typos
Last edited by reohn2 on 26 Aug 2015, 8:27am, edited 1 time in total.
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kwackers
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by kwackers »

kuba wrote:Did she fail to avoid an accident?

Sounds exactly like the response you get from motorists when complaining about close passes: "did I hit you? No, so f off".
Well done.
kuba
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by kuba »

kwackers wrote:Sounds exactly like the response you get from motorists


Yep, just like victim-blaiming. Now can you answer my questions? :roll:

P.S. Unlike crossing a junction on a green light, close overtakes are not allowed by the Highway Code. The parallel you're trying to make is bizarre.
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by kwackers »

kuba wrote:Yep, just like victim-blaiming. Now can you answer my questions? :roll:

This question?
kuba wrote:
kwackers wrote:If I were that cyclist tbh once I'd calmed down I'd have put it down to experience and binned the video but I suspect they think their cycling is above reproach.


And what is that suspicion based on?

It's based on the fact they chose to publish the video. As I said, if that were me I'd have put it down to experience. (Mind you, I'm not female so perhaps that makes a difference).
kuba wrote:P.S. Unlike crossing a junction on a green light, close overtakes are not allowed by the Highway Code. The parallel you're trying to make is bizarre.

Bizarre? In what sense?
Close overtakes aren't actually forbidden by the highway code - as evidenced by the sheer volume of posts on here trying to determine what constitutes a close overtake. One mans close overtake is another's "how wide is that bike?"...

I refer you back to my original post which points out that the first point in the highway code says that don't have a right of way and that you must take action to avoid an accident even if it means giving up precedence. (And this is true regardless of the colour of the light, despite most folks opinions to the contrary).

In that respect a pedestrian in the carriageway can be considered a hazard and like most hazards the best response is to slow down and give way to them. You have absolutely no way of knowing what that pedestrian will do (as evidenced by the outcome!), if they decide to bolt for the other side could she have stopped? If they started to run to the other side and she decided to swerve around the back of them only to have them change their mind and run back could she have stopped?
The safest option is simply to allow the pedestrian to cross, anything else is a risk and I guess like most risks most of the time there isn't likely to be an issue. But 'accidents' are simply a result of risks taken when the assumptions you made don't pan out.
irc
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by irc »

OK - No excuse for the cyclist being attacked.

Lessons for the cyclist? At the point she starts saying " please don't try and knock me off" the ped still has both hands in his pockets. So I think she is reacting to them being on a collision course. I wouldn't react by trying to tell a ped (who ha obviously seen me) how to behave either verbally or by waving a hand. You either brake and let them walk in front or shoulder check and go round the outside if safe.

Secondly - having had an altercation she should have shoulder checked to see what he was doing. On a flat road there is no way a ped should be catching a cyclist other than in the first few yards.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by al_yrpal »

Apparently he has handed himself in. According to the paper the charges and any penalty will be related to the damage and injury he caused. As there was very little perhaps he will be let off? That principle seems wrong to me because she could have been injured badly, why doesnt the law work on that principle?

Al
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Psamathe
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by Psamathe »

al_yrpal wrote:Apparently he has handed himself in. According to the paper the charges and any penalty will be related to the damage and injury he caused. As there was very little perhaps he will be let off? That principle seems wrong to me because she could have been injured badly, why doesnt the law work on that principle?

Al

Pushing somebody in front of a moving car should certainly be treated as a pretty serious offence.

Under the rules that our system seems to apply, does that mean that if I hold-up my local Post Office at gun-point but don't get much cash (because they are small and don't do much business) I'll be let of being told to not do it again ? A lenient sentence would send a strong message that attacking cyclists is acceptable behaviour. He'd have a good laugh with his mates about "how he taught her" and will readily do the same again in future safe in the knowledge he wont be punished (if he is even caught).

In such clear cases punishment should reflect the potential outcome (the approaching car ?) and how society regards such behaviour. When people consider taking up cycling such high profile incidents will undoubtedly play a significant part in how safe they regard cycling.

Ian
reohn2
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote:Apparently he has handed himself in. According to the paper the charges and any penalty will be related to the damage and injury he caused. As there was very little perhaps he will be let off? That principle seems wrong to me because she could have been injured badly, why doesnt the law work on that principle?

Al


The principle surely is that his actions were deliberate and done to cause harm,ie;assault.The fact that she wasn't injured is sheer luck.
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Mick F
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by Mick F »

After my terrible fall due to a terrible pot hole, my solicitors dropped the case because the council had a good excuse.
Had I been killed, there would have been much more done and the case wouldn't have been dropped. Mucho compo to my bereaved widow for instance. As it was, no-one got nowt.

Maybe the wheels of the legalities have to see what the outcome actually is before taking any action, rather than predicting what COULD have happened.
Mick F. Cornwall
reohn2
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by reohn2 »

irc wrote:
Lessons for the cyclist? At the point she starts saying " please don't try and knock me off" the ped still has both hands in his pockets.

Are you sure about that,his left hand is his right hand is obscured by his body.

So I think she is reacting to them being on a collision course.

Possibly
I wouldn't react by trying to tell a ped (who ha obviously seen me) how to behave either verbally or by waving a hand.

That depends on circumstance and the cyclist involved,but if you thought he was going to try to push you off you may.
It's got to be said you are over 6ft tall well built and confident,she may well not be either as tall or as confident and feared a fall as a result of his actions.

You either brake and let them walk in front or shoulder check and go round the outside if safe.

Whilst I agree not all cyclists are that proficient or quick thinking.

Secondly - having had an altercation she should have shoulder checked to see what he was doing. On a flat road there is no way a ped should be catching a cyclist other than in the first few yards.

She may have thought the altercation had passed,but I take your point,I certainly would've checked but I'm not her.
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reohn2
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by reohn2 »

Mick F wrote:Maybe the wheels of the legalities have to see what the outcome actually is before taking any action, rather than predicting what COULD have happened.


Which IMHO,is a serious problem with legal system.
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irc
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by irc »

al_yrpal wrote:Apparently he has handed himself in. According to the paper the charges and any penalty will be related to the damage and injury he caused. As there was very little perhaps he will be let off? That principle seems wrong to me because she could have been injured badly, why doesnt the law work on that principle?

Al


In some respects it does. The penalties for drink driving are severe crash or not because of the potential danger.

For assault in Scotland the sheriff or judge takes into account all the circumstances. Previous convictions, weapon used, severity and length of attack, provocation, relative strength and weakness of victims etc. I'd expect the potential danger would also be considered. So pushing a cyclist over into a traffic flow would get a bigger sentence. THe injury is often the biggest factor though. Punch someone once and your sentence could vary from a small fine for assault to a number of years for culpable homicide.

So if this was Scotland I'd say wait until he is sentenced before speculating.
kuba
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by kuba »

kwackers wrote:It's based on the fact they chose to publish the video.


Except she didn't choose to publish it. The Met did, and only to identify the perpetrator. Get your facts straight, otherwise this discussion makes little sense.

kwackers wrote:Close overtakes aren't actually forbidden by the highway code


Rule 163: "Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should: a/ not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake..." And so on. There's even a picture...
irc
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Post by irc »

reohn2 wrote:
irc wrote:
Lessons for the cyclist? At the point she starts saying " please don't try and knock me off" the ped still has both hands in his pockets.

reohn2 wrote:Are you sure about that,his left hand is his right hand is obscured by his body.


So it isn't swinging like it would if he was walking. It's either in his pocket or hooked in his rucsac. He isn't doing anything with his hands to indicate he is intending to knock her off. She has correctly read from his body language that he wasn't ceding priority to her. I've had peds do the same thing to me when I've been in a car.

I've no idea what she has donewith her hands but whatever it was it has annoyed him. Maybe just passing very close in front of him was enough. Totla over reaction by him of course as he had invited the close pass.
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