Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

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TonyR
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Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by TonyR »

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Let's be honest. Most of us are car drivers, so a decent proportion of us also drive like fools. As a user group I'm not aware of any evidence that we make safer car drivers or at les likely to offend when behind the wheel.


Indeed, I've had close passes from quite a few cars with bikes on the back.
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by reohn2 »

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Let's be honest. Most of us are car drivers, so a decent proportion of us also drive like fools. As a user group I'm not aware of any evidence that we make safer car drivers or at les likely to offend when behind the wheel.


But then there's no proof that cyclists who drive are more likely to drive like fools.
If anything there's a fair chance that having been at the receiving end of bad driving,they're more likely to have empathy with other road users especially the vulnerable.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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reohn2
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Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by reohn2 »

TonyR wrote:
Lance Dopestrong wrote:Let's be honest. Most of us are car drivers, so a decent proportion of us also drive like fools. As a user group I'm not aware of any evidence that we make safer car drivers or at les likely to offend when behind the wheel.


Indeed, I've had close passes from quite a few cars with bikes on the back.


But what about all the others who don't and don't have an bikes on the car,does it mean they all aren't cyclists?
Please don't think I'm being biased toward driving cyclists,just trying to look at it logically.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

reohn2 wrote:
Lance Dopestrong wrote:Let's be honest. Most of us are car drivers, so a decent proportion of us also drive like fools. As a user group I'm not aware of any evidence that we make safer car drivers or at les likely to offend when behind the wheel.


But then there's no proof that cyclists who drive are more likely to drive like fools.
If anything there's a fair chance that having been at the receiving end of bad driving,they're more likely to have empathy with other road users especially the vulnerable.


Either that or they just ride off road, so never get close passes...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
reohn2
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Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by reohn2 »

[XAP]Bob wrote: Either that or they just ride off road, so never get close passes...


That thought did cross my mind as MTB's form the bulk of bikes on cars.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Ben@Forest
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Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by Ben@Forest »

I've ridden off (been forced off) the road twice because of exceptionally close passes. Once it was a 2CV with the archetypal 'Nuclear Power - No Thanks' sticker, a driver you'd expect be into green transport and cycling. What's worse I was cycling on holiday in France and it was an British-registered, RHD vehicle, so the driver's position really was right behind me, not a case of not knowing how far I was out or he was over.

Of course it could have been being driven by the owner's 21-year old son who hated cycling and cyclists...
Tangled Metal
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Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by Tangled Metal »

I really don't buy into this theory that drivers who also ride cycles drive safer or with more consideration than non-cyclist drivers. I just have this view that people make bad choices and decisions. Driving is not the same as cycling in your awareness and driving positions. They are just too different and IMHO I think most think like a driver when driving a car and think like a cyclist when riding a bike.

I know i try to treat cyclists and other road users with more consideration when in a car but I also acknowledge that I too fail at times. I will take that risky overtake as much as any other driver if I am in the mindset to do so. I am sure I am not alone among us driver/cyclists to do that.

Thinking awareness course? Oh dear, are the authorities trying to throw money down the drain? Who actually pays for this? Is it fully funded by court costs awarded against the offender? I doubt it is so that means tax funded waste of time.

I think some on here are under the impression he will drive without a valid licence and insurance anyway. I wonder if in time there will be a means to prevent cars starting without a valid licence? Imagine that your driver's key had the state of your licence programmed in so the car can check if you are allowed to drive before starting. Or perhaps a key and separate licence slot. Without both the car won't start. Reckon the technology is there. I mean that licence could also contain your insurance details and the state of the car's MOT certificate. If you do not have all these things in place the car won't start. Add in breathalizer and you might cut a few problems with the current system...might!
kwackers
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Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by kwackers »

Tangled Metal wrote:I will take that risky overtake as much as any other driver if I am in the mindset to do so. I am sure I am not alone among us driver/cyclists to do that.

Hmmm. If you know it's risky then why would you do it?
I must admit to knowing upfront whether the manoeuvre I want to do is risky and if so then I just back off and wait.

I wasn't always like that of course, years ago I measured my driving ability purely on a technical level. Handbrake parallel park? Check. Power slide? Check. Good racing lines? Check. Observant? Check. Fast reaction times? Check.
Conclusion: I'm a "good" driver...

I'm a big believer in the 'Dunning-Kruger' effect and one of the things it points out is that when you demonstrate to someone with an overly inflated view of their own abilities why they are wrong then they'll usually reassess their skill and improve. This is why courses do some good even after you allow for the bravado of their attendees.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

jamesoneil wrote:http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/want-crash-car-screamed-raging-Brixham-motorist/story-27652513-detail/story.html


Adrian Chaplin said in mitigation that Richardson was immature for his age and being without a car would be difficult for him.

Judge Francis Gilbert QC said Richardson's journey to work from Brixham to Paignton should be straightforward and flat enough if he cycled.

"He'll have to invest in a pushbike," said the judge.

He gave Richardson a 12-month community order with supervision and a requirement to attend a thinking skills programme.



Surely "I'm immature" can only be used to suggest that you shouldn't have had the license in the first place...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
blackbike
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Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 3:21pm

Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by blackbike »

[XAP]Bob wrote:
jamesoneil wrote:http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/want-crash-car-screamed-raging-Brixham-motorist/story-27652513-detail/story.html


Adrian Chaplin said in mitigation that Richardson was immature for his age and being without a car would be difficult for him.

Judge Francis Gilbert QC said Richardson's journey to work from Brixham to Paignton should be straightforward and flat enough if he cycled.

"He'll have to invest in a pushbike," said the judge.

He gave Richardson a 12-month community order with supervision and a requirement to attend a thinking skills programme.



Surely "I'm immature" can only be used to suggest that you shouldn't have had the license in the first place...


Yes.

Do we really want immature people who need how to be taught how to think straight on our roads in charge of a ton of metal travelling at high speed?

Allowing poor drivers to stay on the road so they can keep their jobs is as stupid as allowing a poor surgeon or pilot to keep working so they don't get into financial difficulty.
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by reohn2 »

blackbike wrote:Yes.

Do we really want immature people who need how to be taught how to think straight on our roads in charge of a ton of metal travelling at high speed?

All of which seems to point to a more stringent driving test and periodic assessment tests.

Allowing poor drivers to stay on the road so they can keep their jobs is as stupid as allowing a poor surgeon or pilot to keep working so they don't get into financial difficulty.

I agree, though it seems to be against public opinion :?
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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maxcherry
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Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by maxcherry »

Is this 'Thinking skills' the new crime deterrent?

Another person has been sent onto one and in so avoid jail because he wouldn't be able to understand the Welsh accent and the Welsh court would not
be able to understand his Midlands accent :roll: Maybe they will enable him to learn of different and more accessible places he can hide drugs on his body :shock:

Drug dealer who can't understand welsh accent avoids jail
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/mi ... nd-9922572
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by reohn2 »

You couldn't make it up :?
What chance stiffer penalties for criminal motorists if this is what's handed down to drug dealers?
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Tangled Metal
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Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by Tangled Metal »

kwackers wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:I will take that risky overtake as much as any other driver if I am in the mindset to do so. I am sure I am not alone among us driver/cyclists to do that.

Hmmm. If you know it's risky then why would you do it?
I must admit to knowing upfront whether the manoeuvre I want to do is risky and if so then I just back off and wait.


Risky as in not completely sure you will not have to pull in suddenly. i guess that comes from driving in places where to wait for a long enough length of road to get past a cyclist without any risk of having to go close or pulling in suddenly would mean you are going to drive for miles before getting past them.

I am thinking of one local stretch I go down both in the car and on the bike as an example. It is a bendy road that has double white lines in places and single white./single dashed lines where the dashed side is in your favour but not always long enough to overtake cyclists. It is technically risky to do that but knowing the road well enough and traffic loads at the time I do it the chances of having a problem with this risky manoeuvre is low but it is still technically risky. With this stretch as the driver I see nothing wrong with the overtake but as the rider I see the same overtaking as a problem. The issue is exasperated because of the high bank to the left, leaves no escape so the feeling of the cyclist is to be more sensitive to car driver's actions.

This is just one example, I think, of the difference in views and mindsets of riders and drivers which happens irrespective of whether you do both. just my opinion though.
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Shame more don't take this stance with traffic offences.

Post by reohn2 »

TM
Which road is that,I'd be interested to know of any road where I'd need to wait behind a cyclists 'for miles' or even one mile FTM,without being able to overtake safely for all concerned.I can't think of one :?
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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