Does the public detest cyclists?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Tacascarow
Posts: 328
Joined: 17 Jan 2012, 8:27am

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by Tacascarow »

Vorpal wrote:
Manc33 wrote:Most of the quiz comprises of road etiquette, than anything to do with safety. :roll:


I got 48 out of 50. And if every driver followed all of the recommended 'etiquette' the roads would be much nicer to use, as well as safer.

48 also & I haven't driven a motor vehicle for nearly ten years. :D
Phil Fouracre
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by Phil Fouracre »

48 as well, can't really see any problem with the questions, just trying to make people think and be aware?
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
karlt
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by karlt »

50/50. Do currently drive but passed test before the theory test was in place. Even had a question about cyclists on the one I did!
karlt
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by karlt »

Back to the OP - it's lack of empathy, I think, because the vast majority of people cannot understand why we do it. Cycling gets you wet and knackered and is perceived as slow. Most people drop utility cycling the moment they pass their driving test. To some of them, we're a belligerent ridiculous minority insisting on getting in their way with our stupid bikes when we should bloody well grow up and drive like normal people. Bikes, if used by adults at all, should be taken on roofs to trail centres and ridden around on tracks away from normal people trying to get on with their lives.

This is why the scooters don't get the same opprobrium - you have to be an adult (well, 16 anyway) and pass a test to use one, so they're "proper" grown-up transport. Unlike our children's toys.
reohn2
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by reohn2 »

karlt wrote:Back to the OP - it's lack of empathy, I think, because the vast majority of people cannot understand why we do it. Cycling gets you wet and knackered and is perceived as slow. Most people drop utility cycling the moment they pass their driving test. To some of them, we're a belligerent ridiculous minority insisting on getting in their way with our stupid bikes when we should bloody well grow up and drive like normal people. Bikes, if used by adults at all, should be taken on roofs to trail centres and ridden around on tracks away from normal people trying to get on with their lives.

This is why the scooters don't get the same opprobrium - you have to be an adult (well, 16 anyway) and pass a test to use one, so they're "proper" grown-up transport. Unlike our children's toys.


It's hard to quantify the percentages but I think that about sums it up for some people's attitude toward cycling.
There's definitely a lack of latitude and a great deal of narrow minded beligerance with some,the 'Pride comes before a fall' thread is a classic example of a total lack of empathy by the car driver which turns to rage when a 'nobody' or 'non person' intruder onto the driver's domain has the gall to confront him about his driving,which is only made worse by the cyclist's insistence for some kind of admittance of guilt and a possible apology.TBH the cyclist was obviously wasting his time from the outset.
I've long said the class system is rife in the UK and it's never more apparent than when using the roads.
When cycling the obvious example is,'cyclists don't pay road tax so shouldn't be on the road at all' attitude,which is used to justify some people's bullying nature,the fact that some cars don't pay road tax doesn't even enter their heads.It's an excuse,an opportunity for some to play out their skewed and prejudiced outlook of life.
The inability or refusal of some to put themselves in other people's shoes is obvious and not just levelled at cyclists,I see it every day when driving,though it's far more frightening when riding because of the vulnerability.

I also believe there are some who are just plain jealous of cyclists because they can't or won't cycle,either through lack of fitness,gumption or prejudice(they see it as beneath them) or a combination or all three.
It galls them that they lack courage/ability their only recourse to make themselves feel better is to bully the helpless minority,this bolsters their ego and reinforces their feelings of power.
This is reinforced by there being no come backs due to there being an almost total lack of law enforcement,so when when the cat's away the mouse becomes top dog.

If in the thread mentioned above,the cyclist needn't have confronted the driver but simply reported it to the police backed up by the video evidence,and they then 'have a word'.If then enough people reported his bad driving his licence was removed from him for a short while(a month?) and his insurers took note and increased his premium accordingly,he'd be far less likely to drive in such a manner in the future.
Such an outlook would need a caring society that treats such people accordingly through a decent and well manned,trained and equipped police force backed up by a judicial system willing to punish such driving and take no excuses for it,as it is it's a joke trying to get justice if you're a cyclist IME.

If you are black or coloured,Jewish,Muslim,disabled,etc,and are bullied,shown prejudice to,or treated badly by others,because of you looks/beliefs,the police and judicial system will move mountains to bring the perpetrator(s) to justice and they'll be treated harshly and rightly so.
Ride a bicycle and even with video evidence and detailed evidence you'll be treated differently,with punishments for such offences being far lighter,that's if it ever gets to court.
I'm in no doubt that people are second,even third class citizens the moment they swing their leg over a bicycle,and the powers that be are very slow to change that attitude.
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blackbike
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by blackbike »

AlanJ wrote:
blackbike wrote:People behave to pass their test then choose to drive in a criminal manner when they are not observed. They don't forget how to observe speed limits or that it is a criminal offence to use a phone when driving.

Cycle awareness training for learner drivers wouldn't help. Learner drivers don't need to be told that cyclists are vulnerable and need a wide berth when being overtaken. It is simple common sense. Training would not mean that the minority of anti-social and selfish motorists who choose to risk the lives of cyclists for their own convenience would stop doing it.

The way to discourage dangerous driving is more severe punishments for those caught doing it, not training.


You realise you are just showing hatred towards drivers? Learner drivers DO need to be taught road safety, etc. The safe distance to overtake a cycle by, the safe way to overtake horses, all needs to be explained.

Following your logic bikeability is pointless as most of it is common sense. The green cross code is pointless, after all waiting for a gap to walk across the road is common sense.

Education might not be the whole solution but it is part of the solution, sadly poor policing resources isn't going to help improve things nor poor cycle facility planning.


Education is largely irrelevant.

When we see the vast majority of motorists speeding on certain stretches of road do you seriously think that most of them have forgotten the speed limit and need re-educating about it?

Do motorists forget that it is illegal to use a mobile phone and need re-educating?

Motorists choose to break laws for their own convenience. They know they are breaking the law and need no education about what the law says.

We don't have education for shoplifters to teach them that the correct way to use a shop is to go in and pay for something you want. We know they already know this and have chosen to act in a criminal manner by stealing.

The same principle applies to criminal motorists. The knowingly break the law and need punishment, not education.
Manc33
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by Manc33 »

Not half an hour ago I was at a zebra crossing (on foot) and a car just drove straight through it.

A lot of drivers just don't care, its not about "targeting" cyclists either, some drivers get irate when stuck behind anything or slowed down in any way.

I might get a t-shirt for when I am cycling with something like "If I had a car I would be fat" since some drivers think/say that about cyclists. Why don't they just get a car and be "normal" (fat). :)
We'll always be together, together on electric bikes.
reohn2
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by reohn2 »

.....The way to discourage dangerous driving is more severe punishments for those caught doing it, not training.


TBH I think it's both,and I also think the police and judicial system need to take dangerous driving more seriously.
As it is unless there's an incident where serious injury is involved as a result,anything else is taken as an "insurance will sort it out" and 'just misses',such as in most fearful encounters with motors for cyclists and other vulnerable road users,doesn't even warrant a second thought for the police.
IMO that's because they're undermanned and a need to prioritise is forced on them,which results in the situation where there's no police which = no threat of being caught which = do as you please which leads to a lowering of driving standards at best and downright deliberate dangerous criminal behaviour at worse.
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reohn2
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by reohn2 »

Manc33 wrote:I might get a t-shirt for when I am cycling with something like "If I had a car I would be fat" since some drivers think/say that about cyclists. Why don't they just get a car and be "normal" (fat). :)


Now who's prejudiced? :?
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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User avatar
[XAP]Bob
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Test didn't like my answer about a puncture on the motorway.

I didn't think there was enough information...

You get a puncture and get to the har dhsoulder do you:
- Change the wheel
- Change the wheel if you have a passenger to help
- Phone a breakdown service
- Phone the police

(or some other such rubbish)

Personally, assuming it's a passenger side wheel I'll just change it.
If it's a drivers side wheel I'll probably still change it, but would be more aggressive abotu getting as far across the shoulder as possible, onto the verge if needed.

Then again a warning triangle and high vis jacket aren't mentioned...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Bicycler
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by Bicycler »

Whether we would necessarily agree with the answer or not it follows the Highway Code to the letter: https://www.gov.uk/breakdowns-and-incid ... 275-to-278
leave the vehicle by the left-hand door and ensure your passengers do the same. You MUST leave any animals in the vehicle or, in an emergency, keep them under proper control on the verge. Never attempt to place a warning triangle on a motorway

do not put yourself in danger by attempting even simple repairs
Tacascarow
Posts: 328
Joined: 17 Jan 2012, 8:27am

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by Tacascarow »

I thought standard advice about any breakdown was leave the vehicle (with hazards on) via passenger side & wait on verge after notifying services.
Sure that's what I saw ont TV advert.
(cross posted)
AlanJ
Posts: 57
Joined: 1 Aug 2013, 6:44pm

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by AlanJ »

blackbike wrote:Education is largely irrelevant.

Motorists choose to break laws for their own convenience. They know they are breaking the law and need no education about what the law says.

They know they are breaking the law. That would be learnt via education. You hate drivers and your blind hatred can't tell between the type of person who changes when caught breaking the law and those who are more hardened law breakers. A quick question, have you ever broken the law?

blackbike wrote: We don't have education for shoplifters to teach them that the correct way to use a shop is to go in and pay for something you want. We know they already know this and have chosen to act in a criminal manner by stealing.

You were born with the knowledge of how to shop? There are multiple reasons why people shoplift, some of those can be solved by intervention, which may include education. Or do you cast off people once they have broken the law?

blackbike wrote:The same principle applies to criminal motorists. The knowingly break the law and need punishment, not education.

So have you ever broken the law? Do you feel speed awareness courses are useless?

Like I've said you have blind hatred for drivers and have a very odd notion of how people gain knowledge (apparently you were born knowing how to shop).

You also didn't answer my question about bikeability and things like the green cross code. Chances are you still won't nor will you answer my question about whether you have ever broken the law (there are some very obscure laws still on the statute book that most people have broken).

Punishment alone will not solve all problems, education alone won't solve all problems, the answer lies with both plus an attitude change towards crime and crime detection. People often speed because they know the chances of getting caught are low.
firedfromthecircus
Posts: 310
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 7:50pm

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by firedfromthecircus »

blackbike wrote:
AlanJ wrote:
blackbike wrote:People behave to pass their test then choose to drive in a criminal manner when they are not observed. They don't forget how to observe speed limits or that it is a criminal offence to use a phone when driving.

Cycle awareness training for learner drivers wouldn't help. Learner drivers don't need to be told that cyclists are vulnerable and need a wide berth when being overtaken. It is simple common sense. Training would not mean that the minority of anti-social and selfish motorists who choose to risk the lives of cyclists for their own convenience would stop doing it.

The way to discourage dangerous driving is more severe punishments for those caught doing it, not training.


You realise you are just showing hatred towards drivers? Learner drivers DO need to be taught road safety, etc. The safe distance to overtake a cycle by, the safe way to overtake horses, all needs to be explained.

Following your logic bikeability is pointless as most of it is common sense. The green cross code is pointless, after all waiting for a gap to walk across the road is common sense.

Education might not be the whole solution but it is part of the solution, sadly poor policing resources isn't going to help improve things nor poor cycle facility planning.


Education is largely irrelevant.

When we see the vast majority of motorists speeding on certain stretches of road do you seriously think that most of them have forgotten the speed limit and need re-educating about it?

Do motorists forget that it is illegal to use a mobile phone and need re-educating?

Motorists choose to break laws for their own convenience. They know they are breaking the law and need no education about what the law says.

We don't have education for shoplifters to teach them that the correct way to use a shop is to go in and pay for something you want. We know they already know this and have chosen to act in a criminal manner by stealing.

The same principle applies to criminal motorists. The knowingly break the law and need punishment, not education.


Spot on blackbike.

There is a lack of empathy, as someone else mentioned, which the right kind of education could improve. But the general lawlessness of a vast number of motorists is not down to lack of education.

And since the Police are being mentioned they are as much use as a chocolate fireguard and I suspect they would still be even if there were more of them. I was passed dangerously in full view of two officers in a patrol car who did the sum total of nothing about it, and I even saw a poor women being passed dangerously twice by a police car. It seems they are no better than the rest of driving society.
AlanJ
Posts: 57
Joined: 1 Aug 2013, 6:44pm

Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by AlanJ »

firedfromthecircus wrote:Spot on blackbike.

There is a lack of empathy, as someone else mentioned, which the right kind of education could improve. But the general lawlessness of a vast number of motorists is not down to lack of education.

You contradict yourself there. Lack of understanding how breaking the law effects others (ie empathy) can be a major cause of making that decision to break the law, so the right kind of education (your words) could help.

I think that is part of the theory behind the speed awareness courses, change your think. Sure I know a couple of people who have done it just to get out of the points, one of them got done again and realised the points were only on hold.
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