Does the public detest cyclists?

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Jughead
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Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by Jughead »

Here's me thinking I'm saving the planet and not being a burden on the NHS by cycling and keeping fit.
Yet, we seem to be attracting lots of negative press. Us cyclists need a charm offensive, What would you do?
pwa
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by pwa »

I suspect the anti-cyclist sentiment (so far as it exists) is largely a London phenomenon. Here in the Vale of Glamorgan I am not conscious of it on a day to day basis. I have no doubt that there are people with an anti-cyclist stance out there, but they are not dominating the climate here. Driver behaviour around cyclists here has improved significantly over the past decade. There are many more of us on the roads, and mostly I feel that we are accepted.

Why does anti-cycling sentiment exist in London and, possibly, other major conurbations? Well, perhaps it is partly down to stressed people (cyclists and motorists) suffering a lack of patience and empathy due to all sorts of bad things going on in their lives. And partly it is down to cyclists who jump red lights and alternate between the pavement and the road. If you put those two things together I think you have an explanation for some people detesting cyclists. This is not to say that they are right to do so.

I think it is a mistake to view all motorists and lorry drivers as the enemy. Some are, but (around here, at least) most are not. If I felt that I was surrounded by hostility every time I ventured onto the roads on a bike I would probably stop doing it. But mostly I find other road users okay.
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bikes4two
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by bikes4two »

Jughead wrote:......... Yet, we seem to be attracting lots of negative press. Us cyclists need a charm offensive,......


> Press stories are by far and away negative on the whole, are they not?
> My own experiences of cycling here in Hampshire are much as those of 'pwa' above, but then I am retired and don't engage with the rush hour traffic, which if I did, would I expect, colour my views somewhat. :lol:
> On the odd occasion I've driven in London I've been appalled at the road behaviour of some cyclists :(

Jughead wrote:......... What would you do?


> What I do is to do my best as an individual, to always cycle with consideration to all highway users and within the law.
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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by Lance Dopestrong »

At best the non cycling public have a low opinion of us, at worst they stab us to death in the road. Take an average of those 2 extremes and "detest" is probably about right.
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Psamathe
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by Psamathe »

Interesting thread. I think that a small minority (maybe some "boy racer" types; Top Gear (and "spin-offs") fans) are very negative and aggressive to cyclists. But I suspect there are a large number of people who are mildly negative; those who might casually comment about cyclists not making themselves visible enough or not wearing helmets or cycling too far out in the road, "not helping themselves" comments, etc. And I suspect that many of those might even become cyclists themselves were their opinion to move a bit to appreciate the law and real situation/reasons.

I wonder if cycling organisations could have a big impact on the number of people cycling by having a general education campaign, not focusing on educating drivers about not hitting cyclists and how they should drive around cyclists, but rather educating drivers about why cyclists do what cyclists do (e.g. why the ride in the middle of the lane and what might happen if they hogged the gutter), etc. Might turn the large mildly critical people to be more cyclist positive and then many might start considering cycling themselves (e.g. given the health benefits or to help lose weight or with the kids, etc.).

But that is all guess-work and not based on any data or reports - just personal suspicions.

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squeaker
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by squeaker »

pwa wrote:I suspect the anti-cyclist sentiment (so far as it exists) is largely a London phenomenon.
Hmmm: try running a sportive in a national park :roll:
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pwa
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by pwa »

On the rare occasion that I have had negative comments about cyclists, the criticisms have been legitimate complaints (red light jumping, cycling on the pavement, not signalling, etc) but expressed as a stereotype to include those of us who do not exhibit those faults.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by Tangled Metal »

I think it is unfair to lump all the negative drivers together as Top Gear fans or boy racers just like it is unfair to say all cyclists ride on pavements injuring kids and jumping red lights. They are both very unfair. I used to really like Top Gear and I always rode bikes for leisure. I think you may find that a lot of keen drivers and fans of motoring shows on TV are also known to ride bikes for leisure too. Are we all self hating because we watch that programme?

Stereotypes never help any negative situation and TBH I think as a cycling forum it is time we should stop carrying on these stereotypes. What I mean is stop demonising other road users and perhaps take the moral high ground in this stereotyping.

As far as detesting cyclists I have never seen that where I live. The worst I encounter is a few close passes, which I assume to be due to the car driver not realizing how it feels to be passed by a car at that distance. Purely ignorance not maliciousness. I hear a few horns going but often it is as a hello to some pedestrian they know (I see the wave back from the guy on the pavement). Once I got an aggressive small white van driver who drove right up to my wheel and honked his horn in what I considered an aggressive manner. I knew someone was coming up behind me but not how close he was and that horn made me jump out of my skin and I actually briefly lost control and the bike swerved out a bit until I caught myself. I nearly came off and under his wheel. A fellow cyclist was behind the van and saw it all. When we got stopped a traffic lights for a roadworks he said "what an idiot?!! What was his problem?" I remember it vividly because I ran my actions through and I gave him no reason to do that.

As I said up here I have no indication there is any level of hatred or detestation towards cyclists. That one incident was purely a complete nutter who had a bad day. Never saw him again. Lancaster was a cycling demonstration town in the first 5 to get that status (actually a city since the 60s I believe). As such there is a more favourable attitude to cyclists I think. There are certainly enough of us around. Plus I think there is a lot of cycling going on as commuting and leisure. I would bet that most drivers round here also owned a bike and have been known to use it for more than propping up the garage wall. There are reasonable cycling facilities too I think. For me Cycling to work is as quick as driving, and all available alternative methods such as public transport with walking at each end.
iviehoff
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by iviehoff »

pwa wrote:On the rare occasion that I have had negative comments about cyclists, the criticisms have been legitimate complaints (red light jumping, cycling on the pavement, not signalling, etc) but expressed as a stereotype to include those of us who do not exhibit those faults.

I think it is arguable whether these are in fact legitimate concerns. I see them rather as self-confirmatory observations people make to justify their pre-existing attitude.

I read a paper the other day which had some data on red light jumping, suggesting about a 50% higher rate of red light jumping by cars (per driver per month) than by cyclists. The difference is that the kind of red light jumping that cars do - going through a few seconds after it has turned red - is overlooked as being "within social norms" - a high proportion of people do it so it isn't stigmatised. Most red light jumping by cyclists is not actually antisocial or dangerous, and it is officially tolerated in some places - Paris is the latest to bring in official disapplication of many red lights for cyclists - it simply isn't necessary for them to respect the lights in many cases, so long as they give way.

Many more pedestrians are killed or seriously injured by cars driving on the footway than by cyclists. It isn't common for cars to try and travel along the footway, because it is simply impractical for them to do so. But their occasional trespassing on the footway is far more damaging than cyclists, whose presence is often officially tolerated with shared used routes, which could practically be extended to many more without any problem.

I don't have any data on cars not signalling, but anecdotally I observe it is widespread. Since left hooks are a common form of cyclist casualty, it seems to me to be much more serious when they don't signal. It is not always practical for cyclists to signal as they may need to brake or retain in control due to impediments and surface imperfections. So people cannot rely on signals being provided by cyclists, and in any case it doesn't really matter that much.
james01
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by james01 »

pwa wrote:I suspect the anti-cyclist sentiment (so far as it exists) is largely a London phenomenon. Here in the Vale of Glamorgan I am not conscious of it on a day to day basis..

.
London's better than many provincial cities. Cycling's becoming almost "normal" there, especially for commuters. Less than 20 miles East of the Vale of Glamorgan is Cardiff, where you really do feel at the bottom of the pecking order.
Bicycler
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by Bicycler »

Jughead wrote:Yet, we seem to be attracting lots of negative press. Us cyclists need a charm offensive, What would you do?

Not ride on the roads (or pavements). If I absolutely had to do so I'd ride as close to the kerb as possible, be willing to dismount the moment I detect that a motor vehicle is approaching from behind and may be momentarily delayed. I'd also insist upon paying Road Tax and insurance "like everyone else". If questioned about my odd cycling habit I'd apologise profusely and say that I'm still saving up for a car.

Here's me thinking I'm saving the planet and not being a burden on the NHS by cycling and keeping fit.

Just the kind of "smugness" the public have come to expect from cyclists. I'd avoid sentences like that at all costs.

In all seriousness it's hard to say what can be done seeing as much of the common objections are based upon misconception (egs. road taxes and gutter cycling), prejudicial stereotypes (you smug, arrogant, lefty, eco-warrior, lycra lout), or misbehaviour of a proportion of cyclists (pavement cycling and RLJing). I think this will persist as long as we are a group of outsiders. We need cycling to be seen as more of an everyday activity for the masses.
blackbike
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by blackbike »

I think a significant miserable minority of motorists do detest cyclists.

It is nothing to do with us breaking traffic rules as they don't seem to get irate, toot their horns, shake their fists and complain to the Daily Mail when they see other motorists flouting rules.

I think it is just too much for them to see us getting through traffic quickly and cheaply while enjoying ourselves and keeping fit too.

It brings home the utter wretchedness and frustration of their daily driving experiences, and that causes anger and bitterness.
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

A significant miserable minority of people detest everyone who is different from them. It's the usual ingroup/outgroup mentality and is pretty much what makes the Daily Mail sell so many copies. I'm not sure that cycling gets more opprobrium than any other minority activity, nor that we should waste any time trying to disprove them. Better to concentrate on getting good infrastructure so that their descendants want to cycle too!
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horizon
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by horizon »

The 1960s and 1970s wrote cycling out of everyday life. Where it was pedestrianised, you walked. The rest of the time you drove. If there is a "modal shift" to cycling, it's bound to unsettle people: bikes on shared paths, bikes forcing an overtake where none was previously required. It's certainly got people thinking, albeit not always in the most intelligent ways. Cycling and cyclists are challenging: how you drive, how much you weigh, what you can realistically expect to encounter on a journey. So yes, it's bound to engender some negative feelings but that's normal IMV when change is happening. A good sign is the sheer quantity of views out there, negative or not.
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honesty
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Re: Does the public detest cyclists?

Post by honesty »

have to say the Boy racers round here are actually one of the best groups, they pass consistently, they seem to give decent room and so on. This is through town though, dont usually meet them on the open road.
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