Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

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reohn2
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by reohn2 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:What the ${expletive} is wrong with people on here.

The cyclist was doing exactly what they are always told.
The taxi driver left about an inch too little space (better than a bus a couple of years ago).
The driver of the parked car was entirely at fault.


+1
And all three weren't expecting the unexpected,though the taxi driver did manage to respond to the unexpected situation rather well IMHO.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Yes.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
robing
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by robing »

People seem obsessed with apportioning blame on this forum. But it's no good lying in the hospital bed saying it was the parked car's fault, or relying on the quick reflexes of a taxi driver to avoid being run over. I repeat, if you ride so close to a line of parked cars, sooner or later you are going to get doored.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

robing wrote:People seem obsessed with apportioning blame on this forum. But it's no good lying in the hospital bed saying it was the parked car's fault, or relying on the quick reflexes of a taxi driver to avoid being run over. I repeat, if you ride so close to a line of parked cars, sooner or later you are going to get doored.

That doesn't make it a cyclists fault in any way shape or form.

The secondary blame is with the engineers who design suicide lanes all over our road network, with the police and judiciary who fail to deal with poor driving.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Postboxer
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by Postboxer »

If you ride in primary, in hi viz, with flashing lights, bells and whistles, sooner or later you're going to get run over.
Velo
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by Velo »

robing wrote:People seem obsessed with apportioning blame on this forum. But it's no good lying in the hospital bed saying it was the parked car's fault, or relying on the quick reflexes of a taxi driver to avoid being run over. I repeat, if you ride so close to a line of parked cars, sooner or later you are going to get doored.


I don't ride in the door zone, but what you're conveniently forgetting are some of the less pleasant and dangerous side-effects of riding five feet beyond parked cars: tailgating, verbal abuse, close, punishment passes, getting clipped by a wing mirror, getting brake tested, getting hit from behind etc. I've been the victim of all of these different consequences when avoiding the door zone over the last 20 years.
Mike Sales
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by Mike Sales »

robing wrote:People seem obsessed with apportioning blame on this forum.


It seems to me that the first step in stopping incidents like this happening again is to work out why this one happened.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Mark1978
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by Mark1978 »

Mike Sales wrote:
robing wrote:People seem obsessed with apportioning blame on this forum.


It seems to me that the first step in stopping incidents like this happening again is to work out why this one happened.


And you do that by analysing the causes. This is not the same as apportioning blame. Quite the reverse.
aspiringcyclist
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by aspiringcyclist »

Mike Sales wrote:It seems to me that the first step in stopping incidents like this happening again is to work out why this one happened.


I think we have 3 options:

1) Try to get ever driver to look before opening their doors ( good luck with that, and I still wouldn't ride in the door zone)

2) Inform and convince every cyclist to not ride in the door zone, while making sure that drivers don't intimidate cyclists who aren't ride in the door zone ( again, good luck with that)

3) Stop building infrastructure that encourages or 'forces' cyclists to ride in the door zone; e.g. by having a fast moving, narrow road. Instead, build segregated and safe infrastructure.

Although the third one requires money and political will, it's the only option I see as actually being one that could generate results.
robing
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by robing »

Velo wrote:
robing wrote:People seem obsessed with apportioning blame on this forum. But it's no good lying in the hospital bed saying it was the parked car's fault, or relying on the quick reflexes of a taxi driver to avoid being run over. I repeat, if you ride so close to a line of parked cars, sooner or later you are going to get doored.


I don't ride in the door zone, but what you're conveniently forgetting are some of the less pleasant and dangerous side-effects of riding five feet beyond parked cars: tailgating, verbal abuse, close, punishment passes, getting clipped by a wing mirror, getting brake tested, getting hit from behind etc. I've been the victim of all of these different consequences when avoiding the door zone over the last 20 years.


That's a fair point. I don't do a lot of urban riding, but when I encounter parked cars like this I give them a wide berth and pass them as quickly as possible. I haven't had any problems so far.
Mike Sales
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by Mike Sales »

Mark1978 wrote:
And you do that by analysing the causes. This is not the same as apportioning blame. Quite the reverse.


I don't think it is quite the reverse. I think that analysing the causes will inevitably cast light on who made mistakes, and why. The blame will be implicit, but nevertheless, it will be there. Trying to avoid blaming will mislead.
Three out of four bike/car incidents were found by police to be the responsibility of the driver. If we want to reduce these incidents we must analyse why this is. We need to find out why drivers, in spite of testing etc., are much more likely to make a mistake around a cyclist than vice versa.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
AlaninWales
Posts: 1626
Joined: 26 Oct 2012, 1:47pm

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by AlaninWales »

[XAP]Bob wrote:What the ${expletive} is wrong with people on here..

It's what John Adams (in 'Risk') calls 'Cultural Filters'. Different filters mean people apportion blame differently, a bit like RoSPA recommends safety reins and the gov't leaflets insist that under12s shouldn't be allowed out without adult supervision. Fail in any way to act on 'safety advice' attracts blame from those whose filters are tuned to that advice.
reohn2
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Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by reohn2 »

People tend to at some time during their waking lives run on auto, termed as 'being elsewhere','miles away','absent mindedness' or 'seagulls in the head'(remember the PIF?).
Mostly it's safe but not when in charge of machinery,in industry fail safe guards are put in place to stop the dangers a wandering mind through the mindlessness repetitive work can cause.
Intrinsic safety isn't possible on the roads due to the human condition,and the open aspect of roadways,their use requires attention,presence of mind and a following of a code or laws.
With practice experience and attention road use is safe,things go wrong when either the mind lacks the attention needed for the job in hand,and or for whatever reason the unexpected happens due to deliberate or absent minded code/law breaking.

IMHO the unexpected happened in this case due to the driver of the parked car not fulfilling his/her obligations as someone in control of a licensed and potentially dangerous vehicle/machine,which s/he has had to prove they're capable of using on the roads.
The cyclist mistakenly trusted those in charge of those vehicles around him to be capable and mindful of him.
The taxi driver also didn't expect the unexpected but recovered almost well enough to stop in time(having watched the video again,I think the taxi did hit the cyclist,I didn't think he did the first time I saw it)

The facilities for the cyclist are inadequate to say the least,but if he'd ridden that road many times and not had any similar issues he was expecting any on that day and was lulled into a false sense of security,sailing close to the wind isn't predictable,neither are the occupants of parked cars who's mind is elsewhere.

The complication here is the trusting nature of the cyclist,and that he may have perceived dangers from overtaking cars to be greater than those parked,in this case he was wrong.
I think we've all been bullied by close overtakes from irritated and annoyed motorists who think cyclists either shouldn't be on the road at all or should be riding in the gutter hugging the left side of the road irrespective of hazards the cyclist may encounter by doing that.

The lessons to be learned for other cyclists are,don't trust paint on the road,don't trust other road users to be mindful of you or of the law,to be mindful yourself and always expect the unexpected.


My 2d's worth.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Phil Fouracre
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Location: Deepest Somerset

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by Phil Fouracre »

Well that just about sums it up! now, how to rectify the problems, answers on a postcard please :-)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Doored cyclist almost run over - good driving?

Post by beardy »

answers on a postcard please


Remove your vulnerability by using a car instead?
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