Pride comes before a fall

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Pride comes before a fall

Post by beardy »

I dont think it will work!

I stopped off for a Chinese take away meal last night. It was double yellow lines on the narrow road outside so I drove on to the free car park 70 metres down the road and walked back to the shop past a line of cars parked on the double yellow lines.
kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Pride comes before a fall

Post by kwackers »

Vorpal wrote:The best solution, IMO, is to provide people with free or heavily discounted parking at a remote (but not too distant) location, such as a large, public car park with main road access.

The 'village' I live on was recently built with off road communal parking around the rear of the houses and the road along the front of it was endowed with a 'proper' cycle lane and traffic calming.
Everyone simply parked in the cycle lane. When the council held a meeting to discuss putting down double yellows (after several leaflet
campaigns failed) they were attended by some pretty angry residents that were up in arms with arguments like "I wouldn't have bought the house if I'd been told I couldn't park on my own front". They even claimed there was insufficient parking in the provided car parks - the council responded by secretly surveying them over a few weeks and determined that utilisation was less than 25%.

So even though it was obviously a cycle lane people still assumed it was fair game for parking. The double yellows went down and for the most part it's now car free (although you occasionally see folk parking on the pavements in the belief they're not infringing the double yellows!).
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mjr
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Re: Pride comes before a fall

Post by mjr »

Vorpal wrote:I know that residents with lots of cars don't like that kind of solution. And there are places where people don't have access to off-road parking. The best solution, IMO, is to provide people with free or heavily discounted parking at a remote (but not too distant) location, such as a large, public car park with main road access. That's how parking is managed some places in the Netherlands. One of the reasons so many people cycle in some places in the Netherlands and Denmark, is that they have just as far to go to get to the car as they do to get to schools and shopping. Many new housing developments in Scandinavia have only remote car parking.

That's how parking is managed in parts of West Norfolk too. Oddly enough, those short-sighted medieval-through-to-Victorian types didn't build town centre homes with much car parking :roll:, so you can park cars in some town centre spaces for free 5.30pm-8.30am (so if you use a car to commute 20ish miles to a 9-5 job, there'll be no charge), some edge-of-centre spaces free any time (good for weekend storage) or it's between 60p and £2.50 for 24 hours in a town centre at the weekend. Or you can buy a season ticket for municipal car parks for between £99 and £340/year and just park. (But Downham Market has some free car parks and it's the borough town with disproportionate motoring problems (IMO) and lowest cycling rates.)

However, for new developments, we seem to be missing tricks: the same must-have-car-parking rule is applied across the whole county unless it's really silly (flats next to the bus station and multi-storey car park was a recent example where it was waived). At least a must-have-cycle-parking rule is also applied! Do you think this car parking requirement is to compete with other areas where people cycle less, or to enable the council to more easily say people shouldn't obstruct the public highway with 752 cars because most houses have their own parking spaces and if they want more then they should buy it too?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Vorpal
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Re: Pride comes before a fall

Post by Vorpal »

In my area, it only took about two rounds of the parking attendant coming round and generating income for the council before people started obeying the no parking signs. :mrgreen:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Pride comes before a fall

Post by reohn2 »

As I've posted several times,the UK has a societal problem.It seems to stem from a POV of
"I've paid lots of money to buy and run this car,so I'll do as I damned well please in it and anyone who tries to stop me is being unreasonable.If the government through their agents(the police)impose their laws on me,they're being even more unreasonable amounting to a war on driving and drivers"
That is the POV of a lot of drivers.
There are significant element of drivers who think cyclists are illegally using the roads and should be moved off them altogether,they practice their beliefs through bullying and intimidation.
The worst of all is that UK society through the ballot box has reinforced this,by paltry fines and penalties for serious criminal lawbreaking simply because the perpetrators are driving motors.
We've also decided that we barely need traffic police to bring those perpetrators to book,making matters worse.
For cyclists the application of the law is slewed against them,trying to get the police even remotely interested in dangerous driving,sometimes deliberate,against a cyclist is met with feet dragging,hurdles and hoops to jump through for it to be taken seriously.
I also believe there is moves afoot to stealthily remove cyclists from the roads by allowing such attitudes to persist and by building cheap third rate infrastructure which at a point of choosing by government will be made law that cyclists must use it.

The on street or illegal/dangerous parking is endemic in UK society,and is also IME met with lip service and feet dragging from the police,who's job it is to stop it.
When I phone the police to report dangerous parking close to shops and a primary school,I don't expect to be told by a police sergeant to photograph the offenders myself and send copies to him.I expect him or his constables to do that as it's their job.

We live in a land where car is king,might is right and police presence and law enforcement is scarce,but for the most serious of crime.
It will persist until we cannot move for cars or in them.

My 2d's worth
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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mjr
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Re: Pride comes before a fall

Post by mjr »

MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
reohn2
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Re: Pride comes before a fall

Post by reohn2 »

mjr wrote:Carlton Reid versus "Mr Loophole" at 11.15am today on http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio5live – background: http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/-mr- ... ists_66761 http://pic.twitter.com/67ci1Gclpx


I listened to it.
Nothing was resolved as usual.
Loophole didn't convince me of anything but his prejudice,and surprisingly his ignorance.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
AlanD
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Joined: 27 Mar 2008, 1:29pm
Location: South Oxfordshire

Re: Pride comes before a fall

Post by AlanD »

This article was just featured on ITV meridian news, www.itv.com/meridian
So now the whole of the Meridian area has seen this man's ugly mug and what a fool he has made of himself. He lives in Henley.
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