Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
In the (distant) past surely working horses shared busy city roads with wheeled things (carriages etc) pedestrians, bicycles etc. So surely these should have been bred to be less 'skittish'/nervous than some current 'pet' horses seen on roads:
so why have 'pet' horses not been bred from less skittish/nervous i.e. more calm stock? Surely it would be better for the horse itself?
NB I always think that horses being towed in horse boxes must be thinking 'I should be towing not towed: this is just wrong pffffft'
so why have 'pet' horses not been bred from less skittish/nervous i.e. more calm stock? Surely it would be better for the horse itself?
NB I always think that horses being towed in horse boxes must be thinking 'I should be towing not towed: this is just wrong pffffft'
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Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
Careful now, someone will be accusing you of "victim blaming"! Seriously, though, I think most non-sporting horses are bred at least partly for temperament.
Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
The money is in breeding horses for competition, hunting, show, etc. Eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmblood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_hunter I suspect that the horses you see out on the road, cheap enough for the rest of us to ride, are in part the rejects from that process, or else bred cheaply without any great science involved.
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Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
SA_SA_SA wrote:
NB I always think that horses being towed in horse boxes must be thinking 'I should be towing not towed: this is just wrong pffffft'
...it's the equine equivalent of Johnny being taken to school in an MPV rather than walking/cycling
Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
I should hope not.
But I don't suppose horses enjoy being nervous, so it seems a reasonable question.
I slow, and say hello when I meet them and their rider and am sometimes asked to completely stop. It just seemed to me if they are not racehorses there should be no disadvantage in selecting for calmness and I don't think the horses I meet could cope in cities of olden days so I wonder what has happened.
But I don't suppose horses enjoy being nervous, so it seems a reasonable question.
I slow, and say hello when I meet them and their rider and am sometimes asked to completely stop. It just seemed to me if they are not racehorses there should be no disadvantage in selecting for calmness and I don't think the horses I meet could cope in cities of olden days so I wonder what has happened.
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Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
Maybe horse riders prefer a GTI to an LX model - and as stated, there are plenty that aren't going to quite make the grade as a racehorse, I guess, so a ready supply.
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Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
I suspect that if there's any rhyme or reason at all to horse breeding, it will be mainly fashion. If there's a horse-world equivalent of the SUV it's probably no more suited to road use than the SUVs are. It's probably just as well it's not yet possible to get a horse out of the stable and put it's saddle on whilst sitting indoors using a smart phone.
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Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
Interesting topic. In the horse-drawn days, harness horses wore blinkers, preventing them from seeing what was behind them. Whether or not blinkers are a good thing (there's a diatribe against them in "Black Beauty") my experience suggests that a horse is more readily upset by something strange glimpsed behind him in peripheral vision than by something in front that he can see with both eyes.
With regard to modern "pet" horses: as iviehoff says, many are rejects from breeds intended for competition purposes. Calmness could be counter-productive if the aim is to breed a horse willing to go at speed.
Some others may be the result of very casual breeding. "I've got a mare, I can't go riding for a year, so she may as well have a foal." She'd be bred to a stallion of whatever type might produce the most valuable offspring, and calmness is not usually a saleable quality. Even worse, the situation may be, "My mare is too jumpy and skittish to be enjoyable to ride, so I'll breed from her instead." Alternatively, "My mare is lovely and calm, much too valuable a riding horse to give her time off to breed."
Also, since nowadays riding is a leisure activity rather than transport, riders seek places where they won't be sharing space with different kinds of traffic. So if they do have to go a short distance by road to get to the preferred bridleway/ moorland/ whatever, the road is a relatively unfamiliar environment for the horse, who doesn't get much chance to become used to traffic.
Mary
With regard to modern "pet" horses: as iviehoff says, many are rejects from breeds intended for competition purposes. Calmness could be counter-productive if the aim is to breed a horse willing to go at speed.
Some others may be the result of very casual breeding. "I've got a mare, I can't go riding for a year, so she may as well have a foal." She'd be bred to a stallion of whatever type might produce the most valuable offspring, and calmness is not usually a saleable quality. Even worse, the situation may be, "My mare is too jumpy and skittish to be enjoyable to ride, so I'll breed from her instead." Alternatively, "My mare is lovely and calm, much too valuable a riding horse to give her time off to breed."
Also, since nowadays riding is a leisure activity rather than transport, riders seek places where they won't be sharing space with different kinds of traffic. So if they do have to go a short distance by road to get to the preferred bridleway/ moorland/ whatever, the road is a relatively unfamiliar environment for the horse, who doesn't get much chance to become used to traffic.
Mary
I used to be known as "maryinoxford," but I've moved...
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Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
Horses are prey animals, its in their nature to be spooked by things they're not sure about, not everything can be bred out of animals.
Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
Horses used to be picked for their strength and docility to haul carriages and carts. Didn't matter what they looked like so long as they could pull a load. These days, (pet) horses are picked because they look nice and/or have a good nature.
Police horses etc are picked for their ability to be trained to be brave and calm.
Police horses etc are picked for their ability to be trained to be brave and calm.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
rualexander wrote:Horses are prey animals, its in their nature to be spooked by things they're not sure about, not everything can be bred out of animals.
And really unfair things (bents to most horses) spook well
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
Around us, I worry more about the rider's behaviour than the horse's. I live on common land and horses can be ridden off road, yet the local riders insist on using the roads. There are a couple who get very agitated and vocal even if I am approaching from ahead. If from behind, I ride slowly in the gutter on other side of the road and still get abused. If they can't control their horse or the horse is too nervous, it shouldn't be on the road.
But most of all, it really winds me up that they don't pay road tax.
But most of all, it really winds me up that they don't pay road tax.
Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
There are horses for courses.
Very much like choosing a bike i suppose.
Temperament is taken into account whether breeding for racing, jumping, eventing or just a lead rein pony. I'm getting the impression a lot of you can't differentiate between types and suspect you might be calling ponies horses too.
Those you meet out on the road will be there because the rider is fairly confident they are a safe mount to be out on. If you are experiencing trouble on meeting horses/ponies then have a think "was it anything you did which caused it"?
I often come across a couple of highly strung race horses out exercising Slow down, talk to the rider let them know you are there and usually all will be well.
Very much like choosing a bike i suppose.
Temperament is taken into account whether breeding for racing, jumping, eventing or just a lead rein pony. I'm getting the impression a lot of you can't differentiate between types and suspect you might be calling ponies horses too.
Those you meet out on the road will be there because the rider is fairly confident they are a safe mount to be out on. If you are experiencing trouble on meeting horses/ponies then have a think "was it anything you did which caused it"?
I often come across a couple of highly strung race horses out exercising Slow down, talk to the rider let them know you are there and usually all will be well.
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Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
Paulatic wrote:"was it anything you did which caused it"?
I often come across a couple of highly strung race horses out exercising Slow down, talk to the rider let them know you are there and usually all will be well.
No, most definitely not. I whistle or shout from a long way if approaching from behind and I can see that the horse hears me, but the rider doesn't. The problem is that the horse is more attentive than the rider.
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Re: Horses: modern ones selected from what stock?
There are horses on the road that shouldn't be there. I often meet young horses & riders who don't have full control.SA_SA_SA wrote:In the (distant) past surely working horses shared busy city roads with wheeled things (carriages etc) pedestrians, bicycles etc. So surely these should have been bred to be less 'skittish'/nervous than some current 'pet' horses seen on roads:
so why have 'pet' horses not been bred from less skittish/nervous i.e. more calm stock? Surely it would be better for the horse itself?
NB I always think that horses being towed in horse boxes must be thinking 'I should be towing not towed: this is just wrong pffffft'
Also a horse is a very sensitive creature that picks up on its riders mood very easily.
So if a rider is nervous & skittish more often his/her mount will be also.
But undoubtedly the biggest problem is drivers who pass to close & to fast. If it scares the **** out of us cyclists imagine what it does to a rider sitting on top of half a tonne of muscle!
& like most live creatures once they have been scared (abused) by one ignorant driver their reaction to all is to be scared of all regardless.