Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
So I was talking to my neighbour, who has just done a course after she was caught speeding. "You ride a bike", she says, "Did you know you're allowed to ride side-by-side, now?"
I point out that cyclists have always been allowed to ride two abreast.
"No", she replies, "the instructor told us. About two thirds of the class were complaining about cyclists blocking the road all the time, and the instructor said that the law was changed a couple of years ago because too many cyclists were being killed, and that cyclists are now allowed to ride side by side because then cars have to overtake them properly. Its a safety thing."
So there you have it
I point out that cyclists have always been allowed to ride two abreast.
"No", she replies, "the instructor told us. About two thirds of the class were complaining about cyclists blocking the road all the time, and the instructor said that the law was changed a couple of years ago because too many cyclists were being killed, and that cyclists are now allowed to ride side by side because then cars have to overtake them properly. Its a safety thing."
So there you have it
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
Thanks for sharing that little gem. It's really encouraging to hear that such courses include stuff on awareness of cyclists. But a bit worrying that the course tutor should be so badly informed. I wonder what other incomplete knowledge have they imparted on the course participants?
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
What shocks me is some of the limits where they'll still consider inviting you on a course instead of fining/prosecuting. 31mph in a 20mph zone, 42mph in a 30mph zone and running a red light up to 2.9s after it's turned red!
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
That's nothing. As I've posted on here before, the guy who knocked me off was given the option of going on a driver awareness course instead of facing a Careless Driving prosecution. I was asked if I agreed to this, and I said yes. Perhaps, considering the apparent poor quality of these courses, I should have reconsidered.
At least, they're only allowed the option once. On the second offence.....
At least, they're only allowed the option once. On the second offence.....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
Do you, though, think that that is what the instructor actually said, or what your neighbour believes the instructor said?
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
I hope it was a misunderstanding, if not it's very worrying that an instructor could be so misinformed.
Power to the pedals
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
Maybe the instructor is just making it more acceptable to the course participants?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
Si wrote:Do you, though, think that that is what the instructor actually said, or what your neighbour believes the instructor said?
She told me this and I said, "But cyclists have _always_ been allowed to ride two abreast.". She said that the instructor was quite insistent that this was only a new thing that had been brought in. I then tried to give my neighbour a lecture on primary/secondary, but gave up when she and my wife both started saying that they would never ride on the road if they could at all avoid it, and couldn't understand why a cyclist would choose to ride on the road if there was a cycle path available...
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
I did one of these courses almost 3 years ago. People there ranged from taxi drivers, company reps, van drivers to the school run mother who claimed to drive 20,000 miles a year while never being more than 5 miles from home.
The course was very well paced and presented with care taken not to be accusing or judgemental. I heard all the usual excuses. What staggered me was people's ignorance of the law, not only as it applied to themselves but to other road users e.g. the car drivers who did not know the speed limits applied to vans and to lorries. Some of the points of the course were very well thought out and I am absolutely certain that at the end of the 4 hour course all the attendees went away suitably educated. Whether they remember much of it 3 years on I cannot say, and how they managed to get through driving lessons and a test without learning this stuff I cannot imagine since we all know how highly trained motorists claim to be. It was the sort of course that I was very happy to attend.
Edit - I heard some of the usual anti cycling clichés, how individuals managed to introduce them into their conversations is beyond me. Since they were on different tables to my group I simply kept out of them.
The course was very well paced and presented with care taken not to be accusing or judgemental. I heard all the usual excuses. What staggered me was people's ignorance of the law, not only as it applied to themselves but to other road users e.g. the car drivers who did not know the speed limits applied to vans and to lorries. Some of the points of the course were very well thought out and I am absolutely certain that at the end of the 4 hour course all the attendees went away suitably educated. Whether they remember much of it 3 years on I cannot say, and how they managed to get through driving lessons and a test without learning this stuff I cannot imagine since we all know how highly trained motorists claim to be. It was the sort of course that I was very happy to attend.
Edit - I heard some of the usual anti cycling clichés, how individuals managed to introduce them into their conversations is beyond me. Since they were on different tables to my group I simply kept out of them.
-
- Posts: 36781
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
I tend towards si's explanation here: perhaps the instructor was trying to get across the point that cyclists are taught to ride assertively. Having said that, I'm at a bit of a loss to identify any recent change in the law which might be remotely connected. There has been a lot of policing by press release, of course, and when the fixed penalty system was extended to include careless and inconsiderate driving, there were at least two official launches of the changes and close overtaking of a cyclist was widely quoted as one of the things that might be covered. As if . As an aside, lane hogging on the motorway has received similar press release treatment and a few weeks ago, what was believed to be the first conviction for it was recorded at Leeds Magistrates' Court and triumphantly tweeted etc
In the absence of much enforcement most of this is academic.
Incidentally, the absence of a specific offence of riding two-abreast does not mean that it is invariably OK. Check what the Highway Code says on the subject. That's only advice, of course, but check what the forward says about the force of the advice. With suitable evidence, eg kosher camera footage, it might amount to cycling without reasonable consideration. Cries of "Telford!" I've checked what John Franklin has to say (current edition of Cyclecraft ) and I'd summarise the relevant bit as saying that sometimes it's appropriate to single out.
As I said, pretty much academic.
In the absence of much enforcement most of this is academic.
Incidentally, the absence of a specific offence of riding two-abreast does not mean that it is invariably OK. Check what the Highway Code says on the subject. That's only advice, of course, but check what the forward says about the force of the advice. With suitable evidence, eg kosher camera footage, it might amount to cycling without reasonable consideration. Cries of "Telford!" I've checked what John Franklin has to say (current edition of Cyclecraft ) and I'd summarise the relevant bit as saying that sometimes it's appropriate to single out.
As I said, pretty much academic.
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
It's the "softly" approach - don't tell people they've always been wrong, tell them that things have changed...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
-
- Posts: 4347
- Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
- Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
My thoughts too!Si wrote:Do you, though, think that that is what the instructor actually said, or what your neighbour believes the instructor said?
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
I don't peddle bikes.
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
My eldest passed her test a few years ago. Given that both her parents cycle to work I was interested to know what her instructor (who came highly recommended ) would say about how to drive carefully around cyclists.
Absolutely nothing. She said in all her lessons cyclists were never mentioned.
Jan
Absolutely nothing. She said in all her lessons cyclists were never mentioned.
Jan
Re: Speed awareness courses (instructors' knowledge)
I had a driving instructor allow his pupil to draw up alongside at lights and then tell me that I wasn't allowed on the road because there was a cycle path!
Headcams are brilliant!
So as I sent the video to all the local driving schools asking why the instructor was so ignorant of the law and why he was teaching the pupils wrongly.
All very keen to deny that it was them and several forwarded the video to the School concerned
I got a full apology, the instructor was informed of his error and plaed under review. Finally I was reassured hat the pupil had been given a lesson by another instructor who had corrected the original misconceptions.
Next few times I saw him he simply scowled!
Headcams are brilliant!
So as I sent the video to all the local driving schools asking why the instructor was so ignorant of the law and why he was teaching the pupils wrongly.
All very keen to deny that it was them and several forwarded the video to the School concerned
I got a full apology, the instructor was informed of his error and plaed under review. Finally I was reassured hat the pupil had been given a lesson by another instructor who had corrected the original misconceptions.
Next few times I saw him he simply scowled!