Cycle paths - Lesson learned

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Stradageek
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Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by Stradageek »

The cycle paths in Northampton are all dual use but useful for avoiding some dangerous roads/junctions.

But bowling along at 20mph risks problems with 'pod'-estrians, 'meander'-tals, dog walkers etc. Ring a bell or shout a warning and you are as likely to get someone turn and get in the way as move out of the way.

Sadly it has taken me this long to realise that the solution is to approach these obstacles as I would like motorists to approach meeting me on a bicycle.

It's a shared use path and I just need to accept that even if I'm in a hurry I have to go slower and be prepared to courteously share the available space. If I want to travel at speed, I need to stick to the roads!
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hatless
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Location: Northampton

Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by hatless »

I'm in Northampton, too, and have the same experience. In fact I wonder what it must be like to ride on a proper cycle path. On shared paths I think of myself as being in an alien environment, like a car manoeuvring in a school playground or a horse rider going through a house.

Usually people seem pleased to hear a warning bell. They prefer it to being whizzed past unexpectedly.

Some of our shared use paths, though, are embarrassingly bad attempts to use paint on Tarmac and a few signs with pictures of bikes on them as an excuse for not fixing thoughtless or dangerous road design. The roads in the centre of Northampton are largely unfit for cycling. I haven't found a route into the middle from the north of the town where I live, that I am happy with.
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661-Pete
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by 661-Pete »

Well, your thread title and your last paragraph say it all! Forum rules preclude me from calling you what I'd like to call you!

A shared use path is just that: shared. If you must use one (I do, on occasion), there are rules, written and unwritten, to be observed. The written rule is that pertaining to bridle paths: give way to all other path users. The unwritten rule, which I think it would be sensible to adhere to, is, 8 mph absolute tops. About the speed of a human jogger. Bowling along at 20mph, as per your claim, is anti-social in the extreme - unless you are the only person on the path and can see for miles ahead. Even then there is no guarantee that a pedestrian will not step out of a side entrance.

Moreover I am not comfortable with your pejorative allusions to pedestrians. They have as much a right as you have to be on the path. And some of them are elderly and frail. Some of them listen to music. It's not illegal.

So if you've posted on here expecting mutterings of sympathy, you won't get any from this department. Sorry!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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maxcherry
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by maxcherry »

20mph on a shared path is way to much. If you want to go fast take the road, but a shared path is not safe for either party
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reohn2
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by reohn2 »

maxcherry wrote:20mph on a shared path is way to much. If you want to go fast take the road, but a shared path is not safe for either party


+1
Even half that speed can be too fast on busy sections,IMO some cyclists have the same attitude that motorists have,that nothing should slow them down,they have right of way and the path should clear instantly at their appearance :?

On Friday I witnessed an MTB rider whizz past three walkers on a Bridleway at 20+mph from behind missing them by a about 400mm without a word of warning.
All three were shocked and shaken when I got to them.
I stopped and offered an apology for and had a conversation about the complete and utter moron who'd just scared the living daylights out of them.
With that kind of behaviour it's no wonder cyclists get such a bad press,and it's not the first time I've witnessed it either on shared use paths :evil:
Last edited by reohn2 on 18 Jul 2015, 10:51am, edited 1 time in total.
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pwa
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by pwa »

Stradageek wrote:The cycle paths in Northampton are all dual use but useful for avoiding some dangerous roads/junctions.

But bowling along at 20mph risks problems with 'pod'-estrians, 'meander'-tals, dog walkers etc. Ring a bell or shout a warning and you are as likely to get someone turn and get in the way as move out of the way.

Sadly it has taken me this long to realise that the solution is to approach these obstacles as I would like motorists to approach meeting me on a bicycle.

It's a shared use path and I just need to accept that even if I'm in a hurry I have to go slower and be prepared to courteously share the available space. If I want to travel at speed, I need to stick to the roads!


I agree with every word. And a ping bell is useful on those paths. I used to work for a charity that converted former rail lines into shared use "Community Routes", and we saw them as paths for everyone who didn't have a motor (and mobility scooters). On some we were able to include horses. But of course having a variety of user groups does mean taking care. And for pleasant cycling I much prefer country lanes, even if it does mean meeting the occasional car.

661-Pete, I think you have misunderstood what the OP is saying. It is a story of someone learning that 20mph is inappropriate around pedestrians and that you have to take care around other path users. To pick up on a small point, there are tracks where because of long sight lines it can be okay to let speed build up to 20mph, but not with pedestrians around.
Phil Fouracre
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by Phil Fouracre »

What comes around, goes around! Let's just treat everyone else like we criticise motorists for treating us!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
pwa
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by pwa »

Phil Fouracre wrote:What comes around, goes around! Let's just treat everyone else like we criticise motorists for treating us!


I'm sure you are joking. I try to pass other users of shared use paths like I would want them to pass me if our roles were reversed. I try to pass other people's children as if they were my own. And when I'm cycling I expect others to make silly mistakes, because I sometimes make silly mistakes too.

On the shared use paths I have experience of, the majority of cyclists are friendly and slow down, often saying "hello" as they pass pedestrians. But there are the other sort too.
beardy
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by beardy »

Phil Fouracre wrote:What comes around, goes around! Let's just treat everyone else like we criticise motorists for treating us!


If only what goes around did come around.

When I drive, I dont drive like that towards other cyclists or pedestrians. Cyclist to pedestrian encounters are much more balanced in the potential to do harm, I think that I am going to come off better than an 85 year old lady, weighing 50Kg, regardless of who is on the bike when we collide.
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661-Pete
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by 661-Pete »

pwa wrote:661-Pete, I think you have misunderstood what the OP is saying. It is a story of someone learning that 20mph is inappropriate around pedestrians and that you have to take care around other path users. To pick up on a small point, there are tracks where because of long sight lines it can be okay to let speed build up to 20mph, but not with pedestrians around.

Oh, I think I understood well enough. The OP refers to 'bowling along at 20mph' and taking a long while to realise that this doesn't work. I appreciate that they now seem to have got the message. Contrition is fine, but doesn't excuse the earlier behaviour.

And as I said, expressions like 'pod-estrian' and 'meander-thal' aren't exactly going to show this forum in a good light. I believe there was quite a row not so long ago, about use of words like 'moton'.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
beardy
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by beardy »

Pod-estrian, moton, meanderthal and mamil.

They are all good descriptive terms that ring a bell.

I believe I would come under "Sandalista" or "BOF".

I welcome some imaginative use of language rather than try and censor it in an escalation of moral outrage. You could even call it poetry!
pwa
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by pwa »

beardy wrote:Pod-estrian, moton, meanderthal and mamil.

They are all good descriptive terms that ring a bell.

I believe I would come under "Sandalista" or "BOF".

I welcome some imaginative use of language rather than try and censor it in an escalation of moral outrage. You could even call it poetry!


Yes, we can be too quick to take offence at loose comments. I would not have chosen the OP's names for people who drift from left to right across a track, making things more tricky for passing cyclists, but I do find that meandering a problem. As the OP recognises, we have to slow down and pass wayward pedestrians safely and, I suggest, with good humour. It's not worth getting stressed over.
MikeF
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by MikeF »

Stradageek wrote:The cycle paths in Northampton are all dual use but useful for avoiding some dangerous roads/junctions.

But bowling along at 20mph risks problems with 'pod'-estrians, 'meander'-tals, dog walkers etc. Ring a bell or shout a warning and you are as likely to get someone turn and get in the way as move out of the way.

Sadly it has taken me this long to realise that the solution is to approach these obstacles as I would like motorists to approach meeting me on a bicycle.

It's a shared use path and I just need to accept that even if I'm in a hurry I have to go slower and be prepared to courteously share the available space. If I want to travel at speed, I need to stick to the roads!


Yes. And it's worth remembering many of those may be motorists as well and may include HGV/tipper drivers etc! :wink:
Respect should be given to all users however they are travelling.

I think that Sustrans recommend if you want cycle faster than 18mph you should be on a road. However passing pedestrians/equestrians at that speed is way too fast and even more so if they were unaware of you.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
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Phil Fouracre
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by Phil Fouracre »

pwa, yup, of course I was joking. Agree with your comments, just not impressed by attitude towards more vulnerable parties in this particular situation. Whatever mode of transport I use, it always has to be the case of deferring to the most vulnerable in any potential conflict situation (hence the logic of presumed liability)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
Mark1978
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Re: Cycle paths - Lesson learned

Post by Mark1978 »

Attaching a speed limit isn't helpful IMO. You should be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. But also moderate your speed when going past property entrances and parked cars etc
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