Indicators, the lost art?

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661-Pete
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by 661-Pete »

Looking at the other side of things for a moment: how many of you refrain from giving a left hand signal, when about to turn left - where there is a danger of being left-hooked? I do (i.e. I do not signal) - sometimes. There are situations where I feel the following vehicle, about to turn left alongside me, had best be held up for a few seconds more, thinking I'm going straight on. For obvious reasons...
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Postboxer
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by Postboxer »

I'd love someone to model the effect on congestion everybody indicating would have, then, start banning everybody who doesn't indicate. Then congestion would reduce as everybody would either be indicating, or be banned.
beardy
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by beardy »

661-Pete wrote:Looking at the other side of things for a moment: how many of you refrain from giving a left hand signal, when about to turn left - where there is a danger of being left-hooked? I do (i.e. I do not signal) - sometimes. There are situations where I feel the following vehicle, about to turn left alongside me, had best be held up for a few seconds more, thinking I'm going straight on. For obvious reasons...


Yes, I certainly do that, quite frequently.

However I will indicate left allowing cars in front of me to take the opportunity that my turning off will provide for them, when there are non threatening me from behind.

The issue with other motorists not indicating is much more of a problem to me when I am in my car/motorcycle than when I am on my bike.
old_windbag
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by old_windbag »

I think we'd all probably agree that using indicators is a remote communication method of our intentions to change direction etc. I think one cloudy area is in places where the road lanes are marked say with a left arrow and a separate straight ahead arrow, at traffic lights or roundabouts. Unfortunately people seem to think that because they've adopted the correct lane then they don't need to indicate.... yet from the observing traffic say entering the roundabout they can't see those lane markings, so indication clearly tells them the cars intention. I encounter this often in the car ond on my bike, with the loss of momentum on the bike annoying. Also it helps if accidentally in the wrong lane as can happen on a new untravelled road.... notice of such lane division is often not given in advance and in congested traffic the markings are hidden under the cars ahead. So basically use indcators even if you are in the correctly marked lane as a help other road users.

With regards to police I've seen some appalling non-use of indicators and multiple lane changes on the newcastle-gateshead A1. These were traffic officers and I've seen many instances of flying in off the slip road and straight across all lanes to the "fast lane".... no blues and twos involved here and no indicators. Also the same in reverse with no indication... yet I've seen motorists on "Traffic Cops" on the Beeb get pulled over for such behaviour. I worked with a retired traffic policeman( retired due to car shunt ) and he said there's no reason to use indicators on a roundabout because you have priority and other vehicles must give way..... well I disagree as it makes the flow of traffic safer for everyone when indicators are used and reduces wasted stop-start events. He also said he'd taken his impreza to 150mph and if he'd been stopped he'd know the officer on that route and it'd be fine as he knows he has police driving qualifications and can handle the vehicle? Probably not unrealstic as I also know someone whose policeman husband got them off a drunk driving stop by a word with their friends at the lodge.... so dodgy things go on at those levels.

Regarding indicators in cars, myself and others were very caught out when vauxhall introduced some silly touch style indicators on the vectra and astra's of the early 2000's onward( we'd get them as hire cars ). If you used them as a standard indicator they wouldn't self cancel, easy to do and you'd end off like an octopus flicking them off, on , off on roundabouts in error much to other road users discontent. Once used to the silly design they were ok but if something isn't broken then don't fix it. I don't think Ford went down that route following recent drives in their up to date cars.
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jardine
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by jardine »

"Excuse me, I don't think your indicators are working properly"
beardy
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by beardy »

Unfortunately people seem to think that because they've adopted the correct lane then they don't need to indicate.


I had a bit of a disagreement with my driving instructor about this. He told me off for indicating when I was approaching a T junction into a one-way street.

I said "It cant hurt, pedestrians dont have to pay attention to where cars can and cant go".

In the end I came around to his way of thinking, if you are in a left turning lane and you indicate left, then that signal has a meaning, which is that you are about to pull in to the left side of your road, to stop or enter a private driveway etc.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by Bonefishblues »

OK, I'll leap in.

You're right, it's annoying.

However...

Cyclists, IME are way, way worse than cars at this.
old_windbag
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by old_windbag »

I think where cycling is concerned I think cars have the advantage that the braking system is operated by your foot and hands are free to switch on the indicator whilst still holding the wheel. On the bike there are times I find it hard to give a hand signal as I'm braking, steering around an obstacle etc you know what I mean... I tend to look back a lot sometimes to give a hint that I'm going to change direction. Indicators on bikes operated electronically etc have never seemed to catch on, probably for reasons posters will explain.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by Bonefishblues »

Understand - I will be indicating in a car before manoeuvring, which includes braking IMHO.

I try to adopt a similar approach on a bike - trying to do too many things at once is a recipe for disaster.
old_windbag
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by old_windbag »

I didn't mean that to sound like I'm doing too many things in the wrong order. I simply meant that say for example you're travelling downhill and wishing to turn right. Then I will look back, give right hand signal and either have to use back brake only...... or retract hand signal to use front brake( for better braking effect ). A car has the advantage once the indicator is on it will stay on without intervention for all to see. Unless your hand signal is kept on until the manouevre is complete then anyone who missed the first use simply thinks you haven't signalled. There are many areas in cycling where I feel real electronic indicators would benefit us and those around.

Indication to others around makes me think of an earthing fault on a work colleagues car.... this mean't when the indicators were switched on the car horn would sound with the flash.... it was excellent as we hear him turning into each junction from about 1/4 mile away. It was like a clown car :) . Rather embarrasing for him.
thirdcrank
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by thirdcrank »

old_windbag wrote:I think we'd all probably agree that using indicators is a remote communication method of our intentions to change direction etc. I think one cloudy area is in places where the road lanes are marked say with a left arrow and a separate straight ahead arrow, at traffic lights or roundabouts. Unfortunately people seem to think that because they've adopted the correct lane then they don't need to indicate.... yet from the observing traffic say entering the roundabout they can't see those lane markings, so indication clearly tells them the cars intention....


This is IMO a very good point and one I had some difficulty explaining to somebody I gave some supplementary driving practice to quite recently. They were desperate to avoid being faulted, yet again, for unnecessary signalling, but in these circumstances it is necessary. Apart from all the forgetting to ensure that that indicators have cancelled and misguided signalling eg signalling left immediately on entering a roundabout when intending to take the third exit, it's my impression that an increasing number of drivers now intentionally avoid signalling to keep others guessing. I think part of it is to avoid cheeky drivers being able to anticipate a vehicle slowing to turn and so turning across its path unsafely, but I sometimes wonder if some drivers at a mini-roundabout or similar are just being cussed and hoping to create an opportunity to blast their horn.
old_windbag
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by old_windbag »

One aspect that arises sometimes that you sort of mentioned in your post thirdcrank is that of a car waiting to pull out at a junction. They look to their left and its clear, then look to their right and the car is indicating left.... to turn into the junction. Driver pulls out seeing car slowing:-

a} Car isn't turning into junction but indicating to pull up at kerb just past junction, outcome crash or horn toot.

b} Car is turning into junction as expected but gets overtaken by motorcyclist obscured to car pulling out's view by said vehicle, outcome well we can imagine.
reohn2
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by reohn2 »

old_windbag wrote:One aspect that arises sometimes that you sort of mentioned in your post thirdcrank is that of a car waiting to pull out at a junction. They look to their left and its clear, then look to their right and the car is indicating left.... to turn into the junction. Driver pulls out seeing car slowing:-

a} Car isn't turning into junction but indicating to pull up at kerb just past junction, outcome crash or horn toot.

Should the indicating driver be indicating before the junction if s/he isn't intending turning into it?
IMHO any driver with a grain of sense would realise that on approaching a left turn off a major road with a vehicle waiting to join the road they're on,would automatically think that a driver indicating to turn off that road before that road would be turning off it into the road they're exiting from.That seems more than reasonable thinking.

b} Car is turning into junction as expected but gets overtaken by motorcyclist obscured to car pulling out's view by said vehicle, outcome well we can imagine.

You shouldn't overtake at junctions,for that reason.
However driving/riding standards being what they are.... :?
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old_windbag
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by old_windbag »

Yes Reohn2 I agree the driver indicating may be giving a false signal to the driver at the junction but in some respects the waiting driver should wait for a fully clear exit as the driver indicating still has priority being on the major road. Also if they are pulling up just past the junction, rightly or wrongly, they still need to give fair warning to those behind of their intention to brake/slow down and pull up.
The second scenario the motorcyclist shouldn't really overtake but it happens I'm sure we've all seen that one. On the bicycle I don't like the disrespectful drivers who overtake into me as I tick along on the opposite carriageway, I've had many a car pass within 2ft at 60mph+ head on. Disrespectful, careless and worthy of the gallows :) .
rmurphy195
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Re: Indicators, the lost art?

Post by rmurphy195 »

jezer wrote:Why have so many motorists forgotten how to use these? As both a cyclist and a driver I find myself hesitating at junctions and roundabouts to see what drivers will do. In my car I make a point of indicating, but it's rare to see the following driver doing the same.


It might not be what you think - I've noticed that on many newer cars the front indicators simply don't show very well, sometimes not at all, if viewed from an angle. This is particularly the case where rows of LED's are used.
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