Courteous Drivers

[reohn2]

Yesterday's ride, I was nearly taken out by a fellow cyclist, had a close encounter with a motor cyclist, but encountered nothing but respect and courteous driving from motorists, cars and white vans alike.

The first incident actually resulted in a collision but fortunately not a mishap. Whilst proceeding along a quiet semi rural road, I began to overtake a commuter on a 'mountain style bike'. Perhaps I should have made my presence known. Without warning the commuter veered to the right, our upper bodies collided and I was pushed across the road to the right. Fortunately as I effectively 'bounced' off the commuter our bikes did not collide and I managed to avoid a fall. Transpired commuter was turning right and was oblivious to my presence, as he did not look before beginning his manoeuvre.

That cyclist is an idiot,to manoeuvre without checking behind is someone with a death wish IMHO.

The incident with the motorbike was on a narrow country lane, when said motorbike appeared around a bend at high speed in the middle of the road. A collision was not going to happen but the margin of error was small.

I once had a motorcyclist (big sports bike) overtake me and catch my elbow with his shoulder,just a slight touch which IMO was meant as a punishment pass for me just being there,and he was motoring too.
Idiot.

In contrast car and white van drivers waited patiently behind me on narrow bendy sections. On occasions I could see the road ahead, and if all was clear waved them on. All gave me plenty of room, and a few responded with cheery waves.

So why do 'we' seemingly, (i.e. those that post on these forums), almost universally slag off motorists whilst praising the virtuous behaviour of fellow cyclist? Surely the truth is there is safe and unsafe road behaviour in all groups.

I agree,idiots use all kinds of vehicle and non but due to numbers they're are mostly driving four or more wheelers,whose safety is almost guaranteed,whereas two wheelers and pedestrians less though they can be no less idiotic.
I have certain rules about other road users:-

a)Never trust anyone using the roads,whatever their mode as they're all potential lunatics,but the most dangerous are the ones in boxes on wheels.
b)Always expect the unexpected.

[Phil Fouracre]

Just assume everyone is out to kill you and try and act accordingly

[[XAP]Bob]

The difference between prats in a motor car and prats on bikes is the amount of damage they are able to do.

Prats on foot exist as well...

...however it's still the vulnerable road user who gets hurt. You see idiots on foot and on bike all the time. Is it true in the Netherlands the motorist gets the flack when involved in an accident with a bike? Regardless of fault...

Not regardless of fault, but the responsibility is on the less vulnerable road user to demonstrate fault.

[jamesbradbury]

Just assume everyone is out to kill you and try and act accordingly

Catchy sound bite, but if I actually thought like that I would never cycle. I might not even drive unless I had a tank.

[Phil Fouracre]

Worst case scenario, tongue in cheek (wouldn't mind a tank though)

[Bicycler]

Double post, sorry.

[Bicycler]

Yup, I'd go with the overtaking cyclist being at fault. After all we 'expect' drivers to make allowances for cyclists behaving unexpectedly, so, what's the difference?

Depends upon the extent of the cyclist's 'veer' to the right doesn't it? If he actually turned to make the turn a safe overtaking gap could have been eroded pretty much instantly.

I'm not sure about the idea of a duty to alert those you are overtaking. We don't expect (nor want) all drivers to honk their horns behind us. It is important for cyclists to be aware of their surroundings. A greeting is a pleasant courtesy and indeed it might be advisable if the overtaking space was relatively narrow. But, if there's plenty of space for an overtake I don't think it is essential for the overtaking cyclist to declare his presence, he has every right to expect the other cyclist to make the proper observations before manoeuvring.

Finally, regarding the main topic of this thread, I don't think the OP was right in his suggestion that

'we' seemingly, (i.e. those that post on these forums), almost universally slag off motorists whilst praising the virtuous behaviour of fellow cyclist Surely the truth is there is safe and unsafe road behaviour in all groups.

Few on here praise as 'virtuous' the behaviour of illegal and irresponsible cycling, but many of us believe that the misbehaviour of a minority of cyclists (eg. red light jumping and pavement cycling) does receive an unfair and disproportionate amount of media attention compared to motoring offences with much more serious outcomes.

Similarly, few of us "slag off motorists". In the majority of cases we would be slagging off ourselves because the majority of us also drive. What we criticise are the driving behaviours which endanger us and the way that this behaviour is accepted as 'normal'.

I suspect what you want is an acknowledgment that cyclists are as bad as drivers and we should all be held to a common standard. The truth is that they aren't and we can't. Virtually anyone is allowed to cycle including: children, the elderly, adults who through disability or disqualification cannot apply for a driving licence. Comparatively few cyclists have taken extensive cycle training. In contrast, drivers holding licenses are required to pass tests after extensive training to prove that they are fit and capable to drive a ton or more of metal at high speed. Given this, standards of driving ought to be much better than those of cycling. The difference in requirements is justified by the vastly different potential to cause harm to others. Injuries in cycling collisions are not comparable with those involving cars.Thousands of innocent people are killed by drivers of cars for every one killed by a cyclist. So, whilst "there is safe and unsafe road behaviour in all groups", bad cycling is not normally as serious as bad driving.

[Phil Fouracre]

Bicycler- good post

[AlaninWales]

Bicycler, do you claim copyright on that post or are you willing for it to be plagiarized for use elsewhere in appropriate circumstances ?

[Bicycler]

Haha, go ahead It's nothing that hasn't been said on here before.

[Phil Fouracre]

No, but, perhaps it should be posted on some of the driving forums I've read, where opinions are 'somewhat' different. Posting on here is preaching to the converted

[Bicycler]

From preaching to the converted to preaching to the unconvertible! I do try and defend cyclists when I hear people criticising us as a group but views are so entrenched and people are not usually very receptive. I've had some success with some people I know who are enthusiasts, the kind of people who do IAM advanced driving courses, who were genuinely interested in what I had to say. They particularly appreciated an explanation of how cyclists are instructed to ride and the reasons for this. One even read Cyclecraft and started cycling regularly. Unfortunately, this willingness to empathise and understand other road users' behaviour is exceedingly rare.

[c0d3x42]

Just assume everyone is out to kill you and try and act accordingly

Catchy sound bite, but if I actually thought like that I would never cycle. I might not even drive unless I had a tank.

I'm guessing that's why range rovers and other Chelsea tractors are quite popular in London, the perception of safety for the occupants and sod everyone else.

[Vorpal]

I'm guessing that's why range rovers and other Chelsea tractors are quite popular in London, the perception of safety for the occupants and sod everyone else.

While I know people who buy large vehicles to 'protect' the occupants, if that were the only consideration, they'd all be driving Volvo XC60s and Toyato Highlanders, but those don't cost enough to proclaim their wealth for all to see.

[reohn2]

I'm guessing that's why range rovers and other Chelsea tractors are quite popular in London, the perception of safety for the occupants and sod everyone else.

While I know people who buy large vehicles to 'protect' the occupants, if that were the only consideration, they'd all be driving Volvo XC60s and Toyato Highlanders, but those don't cost enough to proclaim their wealth for all to see.

Spot on!
And that wealth/egocentricity/self importance extends to 'get out of my way coz I'm bigger than you'

PS,they usually come with a vanity reg plate attached too,so they're easier to spot!