Another death and inadequate sentence

[Mike Sales]

Re blame in ped/cyclist collisions, this is all I have found. Its a report from Westminster Council reported in the Evening Standard.

It revealed there were 133 collisions between cyclists and pedestrians in the past three years, with 60 per cent attributable to pedestrians and 40 per cent to cyclists.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/drivers-to-blame-for-twothirds-of-bicycle-collisions-in-westminster-8602166.html

Here is the report itself.

http://transact.westminster.gov.uk/CSU/Policy_and_Scrutiny_Committees/Current_P_and_S_Committees/Environment/2013/25%20April%202013/Item%206%20App%203%20DRAFT%20Westminster%20Cycling%20Strategy%202013%20v5%20for%20committee.pdf

[iviehoff]

The 133 is just those collisions of sufficient seriousness that they came to the attention of the authorities. I would suspect that there are many others. I seem to have collisions with pedestrians - specifically in Westminster - at about the rate of one every other year but the authorities know nothing about them. But even in the case that caused quite significant damage to my bicycle, there was not much point bring it to anyone's attention.

[iviehoff]

although whether 'caused by' the pedestrian can be inferred from 'involving a pedestrian I am unsure.

The same is true of incidents where pedestrians died in collisions with cyclists. Blame is not shown in statistics. All we know from stats is that a certain number of pedestrians died in collision with cyclists. But the number of incidents is fairly small, so we can probably list them and find out what happened in any subsequent court proceedings - at least when it was the pedestrian that was killed.

It is actually impossible to count cyclists killed in accidents with pedestrians in the national statistical database. The statistics do not record the participation of a pedestrian in a road traffic accident (RTA) except where the pedestrian was sufficiently injured to be recordable. We can thus count incidents where a pedestrian is KSA (killed or seriously injured) in a RTA with a cyclist, and also incidents where both were KSA. But a ped/cyclist collision where only the cyclist was KSA appears in the statistics as a one-participant accident.

I downloaded the national RTA database to try and count these things once, which is why I know it can't be done. A trickle of news reports coming in at 1 per year of cyclists killed by the fault of pedestrians is about the best we can do to estimate the rate.

[irc]

So far I suspect that (a) it is not and (b) the figures are (probably) roughly of the same order of magnitude.

Agreed. In a ped/cyclist collision it will come down to luck and the age and fitness of the participants as to who comes off worse I think.

[[XAP]Bob]

So far I suspect that (a) it is not and (b) the figures are (probably) roughly of the same order of magnitude.

Agreed. In a ped/cyclist collision it will come down to luck and the age and fitness of the participants as to who comes off worse I think.

Age and fitness are likely (in his country) to favour the cyclist. Although I suspect the cyclist is also disadvantaged due to the initial energy distribution.

[Valbrona]

This case seems to be reckless cycling in a busy pedestrian precinct. The sentence seems about right given the circumstances.

Spot the apologist for a killer.

If UK justice wasn't such an ass this cyclist might have been banged up in prison for of the order of a few years like he perhaps would have done if he had killed this poor woman while behind the wheel of a car.

I would think he got the maximum sentence for the only crime the cops could find to charge him with - wanton or furious cycling, which is straight from the 1800's.

[beardy]

This case seems to be reckless cycling in a busy pedestrian precinct. The sentence seems about right given the circumstances.

Spot the apologist for a killer.

If UK justice wasn't such an ass this cyclist might have been banged up in prison for of the order of a few years like he perhaps would have done if he had killed this poor woman while behind the wheel of a car.

I would think he got the maximum sentence for the only crime the cops could find to charge him with - wanton or furious cycling, which is straight from the 1800's.

You must be joking!

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50829

Last one was £145 wasnt it?

[[XAP]Bob]

This case seems to be reckless cycling in a busy pedestrian precinct. The sentence seems about right given the circumstances.

Spot the apologist for a killer.

If UK justice wasn't such an ass this cyclist might have been banged up in prison for of the order of a few years like he perhaps would have done if he had killed this poor woman while behind the wheel of a car.

I would think he got the maximum sentence for the only crime the cops could find to charge him with - wanton or furious cycling, which is straight from the 1800's.

Not sure which murders get a custodial sentence when they use a motor vehicle. It's pretty rare.

This is a harsher sentence than most motorised killers receive.

It's still mild given the devastation wrought on the family - for what was an idiotic and clearly unsafe act.

I still regularly cycle through a pedestrian area*, happily saying hello to the various police and town rangers who are there. But the first order on that street is that the pedestrians have priority.





* the signage is non existent from some approaches, and it allows vehicles at the times of day I pass.

[Bicycler]

I would think he got the maximum sentence for the only crime the cops could find to charge him with - wanton or furious cycling, which is straight from the 1800's.

The maximum sentence is 2 years and an unlimited fine. The Offences Against the Person Act 1861 may be old but it is not exactly obscure.

[Valbrona]

Well then it makes you wonder how many people a cyclist has to knock down and kill in one go before they get the maximum sentence.

[Bicycler]

Well then it makes you wonder how many people a cyclist has to knock down and kill in one go before they get the maximum sentence.

An infinite fine would be harsh

Again though, the same is true of motor offences. No person has ever been given the maximum sentence for causing death by dangerous driving. In 2013, the latest year I have seen figures for, only just over half (54%) of drivers convicted of "causing death" by driving offences received any prison sentence at all.

Believe it or not even those convicted of serious motoring offences often avoid bans. According to the RoadPeace charity (again, for 2013):

For ‘causing death or bodily harm’ and ‘dangerous driving’, around 40% of offences result in a driving ban of the minimum duration
recommended by the Sentencing Council, compared to over 90% of drink/drug driving bans. The rest result in a ban until the
driving test is passed, an endorsement without disqualification (penalty points) or neither a ban nor an endorsement.

Driving bans are supposed to be mandatory for all Causing Death by Driving convictions. But 15% of drivers convicted of
causing a death were not banned and only had their license endorsed..