Another death and inadequate sentence

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Valbrona
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by Valbrona »

Grandad wrote:It works both ways.


Certainly. I don't think anyone on this forum would not want it to work both ways ... not that you are saying that it shouldn't.

I don't just blame the driver/cyclist in such incidents. The State has a legal and moral responsibility to be protecting its citizens, and this case illustrates just one failure of the State amongst thousands on matters of public safety. Meaning ... the State should have in place systems to catch and fine/prosecute pavement cyclists, but it doesn't because its crap and nothing works in this country because the people who run the State are a bunch of imbeciles who fail abjectly in their responsibility to protect its citizens.

Lets have the Local Council Officials in that place wherever it happened up in Court on a charge - alongside the pillock on a bike who killed that poor woman - for doing sod all to catch and fine/prosecute pavement cyclists that have probably plagued the streets of that place for years.
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irc
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by irc »

Valbrona wrote: Meaning ... the State should have in place systems to catch and fine/prosecute pavement cyclists, but it doesn't because its crap and nothing works in this country because the people who run the State are a bunch of imbeciles who fail abjectly in their responsibility to protect its citizens..


I don't think pavement cycling is the issue. How many people are killed by cyclists each year? There are many examples of legal shared use pavements so it can't be that dangerous. I used to use a 1/2 mile section of pavement on my commute as it was more pleasant than the road alternative. Number of peds met on that half mile averaged at less than 1. Number of gates opening on to it - 2. Perfectly safe IMO.

The condition of the bike may have played a part as well

The court heard the defendant’s bike was later examined and found to have had no brakes, a deflated back tyre, an aged and cracked front tyre and no bell.


http://droitwichstandard.co.uk/news/cyc ... oman-7084/

This case seems to be reckless cycling in a busy pedestrian precinct. The sentence seems about right given the circumstances.
TonyR
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by TonyR »

Of course if she had been wearing a h****t she might still be alive.

(Said not because I believe she should have but to highlight the different attitudes. It's the cyclist's fault she hit her head and died and the cyclists fault if they hit their head without one and die.)

[EDIT: And to prove my point. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-h ... s-33291008. "The trial at Inverness Sheriff Court heard that Craig Tetsill would have survived with head and neck injuries if he had been wearing a helmet".]


Given the circumstances I think he got off lightly.
Last edited by TonyR on 27 Jun 2015, 11:05am, edited 1 time in total.
thirdcrank
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by thirdcrank »

"The primary object of an efficient police is the prevention of crime............"

The secondary objective - detection- has now become over-riding to the extent that this type of delinquency in a busy public place is largely ignored until something goes truly wrong.
Flinders
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by Flinders »

OTOH, if he'd been a driver killing a pedestrian or a cyclist, he'd have probably got a lesser sentence or none at all. Or maybe not even been prosecuted.
iviehoff
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by iviehoff »

Let us remember that the great majority of vehicle/pedestrians collisions which occur on the footway, as opposed to in the roadway, involve a motorised vehicle. It is sadly common for people to run their own children over, there was even a case in the news this morning. The sharing of footways between cyclist and pedestrians is fairly common in this country, and even more common in some other countries, where they don't seem to find cycling such an emotive issue.

Suppose a lout had just been pushing their way aggressively along the footway as a pedestrian and knocked an old person over so that they hit their head on the ground and died. What kind of sentence would have resulted? I think that is really the comparison one should make.
Edwards
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by Edwards »

There is no getting around the fact that this sort of behaviour is bad for all cyclists.

Making statements about cars would appear to me to be trying to shift the blame for the death of this Lady. A total waste of a life.
Keith Edwards
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Postboxer
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by Postboxer »

I suppose the argument is that it gets an unproportional amount of press coverage because it's a rare occurrence, apparently around 40 pedestrians a year are killed on the pavement or verges a year. Although that's from this 2009 article.


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... g-pavement
iviehoff
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by iviehoff »

Edwards wrote:Making statements about cars would appear to me to be trying to shift the blame for the death of this Lady.

The topic concerns the "inadequate sentence". We need to understand comparable situations and the sentences that might apply. It has nothing to do with blame-shifting.
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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by Lance Dopestrong »

irc wrote:How many people are killed by cyclists each year?


Approximately 0.25 per year.

Pedestrians kill more cyclists than cyclists kill pedestrians.
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AlaninWales
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by AlaninWales »

Lance Dopestrong wrote:
irc wrote:How many people are killed by cyclists each year?


Approximately 0.25 per year.

Pedestrians kill more cyclists than cyclists kill pedestrians.

Not disbelieving, but do you have a source for that comparison?
Flinders
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by Flinders »

irc
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by irc »

AlaninWales wrote:
Lance Dopestrong wrote:
irc wrote:How many people are killed by cyclists each year?


Approximately 0.25 per year.

Pedestrians kill more cyclists than cyclists kill pedestrians.

Not disbelieving, but do you have a source for that comparison?


Well here's one this year for starters.

http://road.cc/content/news/139869-cycl ... altrincham

Here's last years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-e ... e-27746410

And another in 2014.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-yo ... e-28787709
AlaninWales
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Re: Another death and inadequate sentence

Post by AlaninWales »

Thanks irc - anecdotal but sufficiently frequent to be potentially useful. The numbers appear from that tiny sample to be marginally higher, although whether 'caused by' the pedestrian can be inferred from 'involving a pedestrian I am unsure :wink: . Any idea if the data is collated somewhere for year-by-year comparison purposes? So far I suspect that (a) it is not and (b) the figures are (probably) roughly of the same order of magnitude.
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