Why cycling in the UK is so scary (Gaurdian)

[maxcherry]

Blond wigs are better than hiviz then


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... s-so-scary


The comments give me hope that things are changing

[Mark1978]

Those who say that cyclists are self-entitled etc are only guilty of projection. They can't see that by wanting to get past immediately it is they who are the self-entitled and smug ones thinking they are somehow superior to those using a slower mode of transport. This attitude is common and widespread.

[simonineaston]

It won't change... UK is mostly too crowded for people to give the necessary space to us cyclists, even if they wanted to (Ha Ha). In Brittany, where I do a lot of my leisure cycling, drivers will mostly swing right out and round me, giving me heaps of rooms (and respect) in a way that is simply not physically possible over here. Lord alone knows what it's like to cycle in London these days - I left there in 1990 to move to the West Country and one of my primary motives was to leave behind mounting traffic congestion...

[[XAP]Bob]

It's always physically possible.

It's only that people won't give themselves the time to do it.

[JamesE]

Funny the commenter mentions Exeter and politeness. I've had more abuse from drivers in one half-mile stretch of road there (for refusing to use a weed- and glass-choked pavement farcility) than I've had in four years of cycling around London.

[Phil Fouracre]

Did read the blonde wig thing, and have found, not that, but, wearing more 'vulnerable' clothing seems to get more space (sun hat, tee shirt and shorts)
Re; space for cyclists, I have noticed that if one vehicle gives you plenty of space, 'some' of the following copy it, so maybe people can learn. Also trying out experiment when driving - had a couple of examples today, carrying out exaggerated overtakes of cyclists, and watching following drivers, seem to get a result. Might be imagining it, but, it would be nice to think it works. As I happen to drive a large 6m x 2.5m high van, people might think that, if he can do it like that, so can I, or am I just fantasising?

[reohn2]

What I posted on another thread yesterday:-

I've just returned from a 45 mile ride,in that short 3hour span of time I was overtaken closely(within 500mm) twice by vehicles.
One I happened to catch up up at the next TL and asked if he did that all the time,his reply was "you don't pay road tax" .
I informed him I did but I won't repeat here what else I told him.
I was also overtaken on bridge by two cars(one closely following the other) who gave me plenty of room going more over the other side of the road than our side,but couldn't see over the brow of the bridge if anything was come the other way,I know they couldn't see for a fact,as I drive that way on a regular basis.
I was also overtaken on blind right hand bend by a woman in a new Mini against a solid white line,she was well over the other side of the road and totally blind,I know she was driving totally blind because I couldn't see around the bend and I was in secondary position on my own side.
She had a child in a child seat in the back.
All this happened on one 45mile ride on a lovely sunny day.
Every one of those drivers saw me clearly,and every one of them took a chance with either their own lives or someone else's,not just mine.
The driving standards,lack spacial awareness,downright stupidity and willingness to take such chances frankly astounds me in the extreme,so much so that I no longer think if,but when ....

That ride is by no means exceptional,what is exceptional,is when I come in from a ride without such things happening .

[Vantage]

The driving standards,lack spacial awareness,downright stupidity and willingness to take such chances frankly astounds me in the extreme,so much so that I no longer think if,but when ....

I'm getting to that stage myself.
Cycling home at mid day from Brinscall along the A675 Bolton/Belmont Road a few months ago, I seriously doubted I'd see my kids again.

[Phil Fouracre]

I really do wish I knew the answer. I've been trying to encourage locals to cycle, and have had some interest, but, still the big question of 'safety'' raises its head. For years I've been happy to say that there is no problem if you ride properly and know what you are doing. I may be tempting providence, but, I'm always happy to tell people who are worried that I've never had an accident in 40 years. My big problem is that I am now beginning to have doubts, really for the first time about cycle safety on our local roads. We all tolerate and dismiss occasional 'dodgy' driving and have our own parameters as to what are close passes, but, things really do seem to have got worse, or is it just me getting old?

[reohn2]

The driving standards,lack spacial awareness,downright stupidity and willingness to take such chances frankly astounds me in the extreme,so much so that I no longer think if,but when ....

I'm getting to that stage myself.
Cycling home at mid day from Brinscall along the A675 Bolton/Belmont Road a few months ago, I seriously doubted I'd see my kids again.

That climb out of Abbey Village can be hair raising.
I've stopped using it because of that,I've even had problems with motors when descending it a 35/40mph.
From Brinscall you can take the Goit to Anglezarke or as far as the cricket field at White Coppice,the section between WC and A/zarke is a mud bath in winter.Coming off at WC,the back lanes to Rivington are much better,though hilly.
If you want to cut out the steep climb out of A/zarke there's the B/way(shown as Heapey Fold Lane on Google maps) over the Nab which spits you out onto Back Lane leading to Nick Hilton's Lane,left and first right just before the rezzer wall gets you to Rivi .
Alternatively from Brinscall take the linear park(almost opposite the cafe in Brinscall,it's the old railway line)to Abbey Village at the top of the village turn left through Roddlesworth wood/reservoirs to get you to the cafe near The Royal Arms pub on Tockholes Rd take the road to the top of the climb on the A675,it's wider and descending from there,Though I prefer the Witten Weavers Way to the road

[reohn2]

I really do wish I knew the answer. I've been trying to encourage locals to cycle, and have had some interest, but, still the big question of 'safety'' raises its head. For years I've been happy to say that there is no problem if you ride properly and know what you are doing. I may be tempting providence, but, I'm always happy to tell people who are worried that I've never had an accident in 40 years. My big problem is that I am now beginning to have doubts, really for the first time about cycle safety on our local roads. We all tolerate and dismiss occasional 'dodgy' driving and have our own parameters as to what are close passes, but, things really do seem to have got worse, or is it just me getting old?

The answer is effective policing of criminal drivers who think they're above the law,currently they are due to that depleted and ineffective policing.And a judicial system intent on removing dangerous drivers from the roads,and making persistent and or serious offenders resit their driving test and serve a further probationary period afterwards.
There is simply no one doing anything about the problem of bad/negligent/criminal driving.It's quite simply becoming a free for all.
The risks,knowing or unknowingly,it's hard to tell,to gain nothing at all or a handful of seconds,beggers belief .
This incident I posted on P5 of this thread is completely and utterly insane,only someone oblivious to the consequences of their driving would such a thing :-

I was also overtaken on blind right hand bend by a woman in a new Mini against a solid white line,she was well over the other side of the road and totally blind,I know she was driving totally blind because I couldn't see around the bend and I was in secondary position on my own side.
She had a child in a child seat in the back.

What the thought process was I've no idea but it wasn't one of a caring mother,that's for sure.

[Vantage]

Aaaaaahhhh those lanes look gorgeous!
Thanks John, I'll be trying those out soon

[old_windbag]

I had a heart in mouth scenario yesterday as I was going down a single track in northumberland. I know the quiet backroad well and on the descent of the slight gradient I tend to feather my brakes as I'm aware of 4x4's coming up the hill at quite fast speeds and they have limited view as the road has a slight curve so blind for both parties. I go by sound so I can hear the vehicle.... well yesterday the sound I could hear was loud, a big diesel, sure enough I came face to face with a huge tractor. I braked and went as close into the verge/stonewall and stopped but he had to also stop as there was basically zero room for error. All I could see was the 6-7ft tractor wheel spinning toward me, on the back was a giant pronged rake which then passed me. He was travelling at about 25mph when he saw me, so not fast but for something that size it is, face to face these things are enormous. Unlike a car for me it's the fact that if you hit the verge and lost balance you'd be under the tractor wheel, I think that would put many newbie cyclists off.
Is it me or are modern british farm tractors, like so many vehicles SUV's, Nissan Jukes( designer must have major sight issues, hideous ) getting inflated. There's a good skoda advert playing on that idea. Our fields are no larger but we seem to have adopted american sized tractors. When the arable crops are harvested at the end of my street you'd be well advised to keep the bike indoors as the speed of the tractor+grain trailers is frightening..... but at the end of the day the vehicles can't kill us, they are inert objects, it's the operators who can as it's their brain in control or not.
I also think one of the possible reasons people drive too fast is that we rarely do emergency stops and modern cars insulate us from the speed, then sadly the day we may need to, it dawns on us just how long it takes to actually do so. Standing in court we may wish we could turn back time. So many other aspects of motoring we do day in, day out improving our skills and judgement ( parallel parking, driving through narrow gaps etc ) but emergency stops tend to be an "on demand" feature. I think the advent of electronic distance and braking systems may assist us here...... but many don't like the idea, yet would we want to live without ABS, so only a matter of time.

[mjr]

It won't change... UK is mostly too crowded for people to give the necessary space to us cyclists, even if they wanted to (Ha Ha).

Myth! Netherlands population density 407.1/km², UK population density 255.6/km². Even in England, only 21 of 48 ceremonial counties are denser than the Netherlands average. (Figures copied from Wikipedia - check sources before using for anything important.)

There is definitely space for cycling - if only there was a stronger political will. I too hope that the comments in the opening post mean the message is starting to get through.

[Bicycler]

Population density is a dubious measure. When concerned with roadside cyclepaths I'd have though highway widths would be the important factor.