can't you read? .. 4 seconds well used

[TonyR]

I was driving on an unfamiliar dual laned road toward a town centre at about 6:15/30pm week before last, all of a sudden I was at the start of a designated bus lane.
The vehicle in front (a large van) meant I couldn't see the sign until I was upon it as we were nose to tail, they hadn't pulled off (& ctually they carried on down the bus lane anyways ) & traffic was dense in both lanes right up to that point.
It was a 7am-7pm restriction going into a city centre, which I thought quite unusual in itself though I rarely ever drive through town/city centres, certainly not at that time. The vast majority I see aren't such a big block and not that late but hey-ho. It took me a good few metres to get into the now chock a block 'outside' lane with a Taxi up my trumpet & on his horn by this point.

why can't the signage or some advanced warning that the bus lane was coming up be positioned further up as opposed to being right at the point of entry, I would have being able to move over in plenty of time.
It's ok once you know it's there but like so many roadwork notices, no good having it right at the start, put it somewhere further up so people can avoid or plan where they have to be.

Its a particular problem in London where the bus lane times chop and change, even on the same bus lane, so you have to continually look out for the signs if you want to use them rather than concentrate on driving. It would be a lot easier if they just adopted a standard time for all of them. There's a similar problem with speed limits in other places chopping and changing all the time. It used to be that it was either national limit in the countryside or 30mph in a built up area but now it can be 20, 30, 40, 50 or national speed limit in both built up areas or countryside and they can flip along the same bit of road. Again you need to continually look out for the signs rather than concentrating on the road and then remember what it was until the next sign.

[thirdcrank]

IMO, being aware of bus lanes is just part of a wider problem with lane markings and signs more generally. Most people who have driven in an unfamiliar area will have experienced realising that there's a big queue in the other lane and it's not because a new branch of Ikea is opening. There's no signal available to you to indicate "I am not a selfish roadhog. I'm a stranger around here who's strayed into the wrong lane. Please be gentle with me."

There are various reasons for the "wrong lane" problem. One is that locals have worked out that the officially correct lane is not the most expeditious or convenient. Often, arrows on the road don't reflect the length of the queues which may hide them and I can point to examples of overhead signs contradicting lane arrows.

I often mutter between clenched teeth that the signs are brilliant, just so long as you don't need them and I think that in many cases, if there is any sort of quality check, it's only a second opinion from somebody familiar with the area, rather than a total stranger.

[Ben@Forest]

I think society has changed. In my younger days, being stopped and given "a talking to" would have made sure I took a lot more care in future probably in a far broader context than the incident I might have been stopped for. These days it would often be seen as having got away with it and/or that the Police really don't bother and used as a signal that you can behave in such a manner with impunity.

It's hard to say what does and doesn't work, but society has changed. The first time I was stopped by the police was going through a 'speed gun' trap on a motorbike in a 30 zone. I saw the cop with the 'gun' way off and eased off the throttle, at the end of the trap I was pulled over and advised that though they were taking no further action I had been doing 32mph and I should be aware of the limit. At that time I was unimpressed that I should have been pulled over for doing 32 in a 30 at all, and it was a time when the 30mph limit was routinely ignored.

Nowadays I routinely do 30 in a 30 but I think this is years of speed education and the fact that society expects and tolerates 30 in a 30 far more than they did back in 1987, it was not the copper's little talking to that changed my behaviour. Of course routinely doing 30 in a 30 on the cycle would be good!

[thelawnet]

Many many years ago I was driving in a bus lane in London, not sure why, maybe I thought it was allowed.

A motorcycle policeman pulled me over and shouted: "Can't you read? That is a bus lane, can't [sic] drive there mate! Get aaht of it!"

It took four seconds and I think he did just the right thing, he did not treat me with unnecessary "respect" or try to give me therapy.

This was a formative experience for me, h elped to make me a fan of traffic law enforcement.

Don't see why that would work. Chances of getting caught by the same guy a second time is very small. So if you are someone who drives in bus lanes because you think it's ok to do so, then police encounter isn't going to change your mind.

An automated fine from a camera system will focus the mind much more readily. Rather than a guaranteed £65 fine, I'd take the dressing down any day.

[thelawnet]

Its a particular problem in London where the bus lane times chop and change, even on the same bus lane, so you have to continually look out for the signs if you want to use them rather than concentrate on driving. It would be a lot easier if they just adopted a standard time for all of them. There's a similar problem with speed limits in other places chopping and changing all the time. It used to be that it was either national limit in the countryside or 30mph in a built up area but now it can be 20, 30, 40, 50 or national speed limit in both built up areas or countryside and they can flip along the same bit of road. Again you need to continually look out for the signs rather than concentrating on the road and then remember what it was until the next sign.

the suspicion is that the bus lanes are used as a revenue source.

I was caught in a bus lane on a Sunday a couple of weeks ago by a camera. I had stopped at the red light, the lane I was in was marked to turn right only, and to the left beyond 20 metres of bus lane was the straight ahead lane. So I skipped across the bus lane and got snapped by a camera. The camera in question generates hundreds of thousands in revenue for the council.

I didn't hold up any buses I was using some empty road to get into the correct lane rather than have to 'negotiate' when the lights changed.

Another bus lane down the road might be a Monday-Friday bus lane, and you can happily drive in it, find cars parked in it and whatever, and clog up the lane for buses carrying passengers and not be fined a penny, because it's arbitrarily Monday-Friday only

With dual carriageways you can have the same problem, in London they will be 30mph, 40mph or 50mph, so the most prudent thing is to brake to 30mph in the event of a speed camera, just in case you have somehow not spotted the recent change even if you are 95% sure that you are in a 50mph. Perhaps they should paint the speed limit on the road as well, to stop this epidemic of unnecessary braking.

[Psamathe]

Many many years ago I was driving in a bus lane in London, not sure why, maybe I thought it was allowed.

A motorcycle policeman pulled me over and shouted: "Can't you read? That is a bus lane, can't [sic] drive there mate! Get aaht of it!"

It took four seconds and I think he did just the right thing, he did not treat me with unnecessary "respect" or try to give me therapy.

This was a formative experience for me, h elped to make me a fan of traffic law enforcement.

Don't see why that would work. Chances of getting caught by the same guy a second time is very small. So if you are someone who drives in bus lanes because you think it's ok to do so, then police encounter isn't going to change your mind.

An automated fine from a camera system will focus the mind much more readily. Rather than a guaranteed £65 fine, I'd take the dressing down any day.

Sorry to go a bit "off-topic" but a year or so ago I drove up to London (very very rare) and saw a car blocking an ambulance with blue flashing lights/sirens going. (S)he would not pull into a bus lane to get out of the way; ambulance was blocked by something else and could not get into bus lane (i.e. car could have pulled into bus lane but wouldn't, ambulance couldn't). I mentioned this to a friend who lives in London and they explained that people don't because, if you are then photographed by an automated camera, the "getting out of the way for an ambulance" is not an accepted excuse (as they wont go to the ambulance records to check if there might have been an ambulance in the area at that time). so if you don't know where the cameras are you are taking something of a risk and so people don't and so somebody in need of an ambulance (probably) has to wait longer.

Sometimes things can have unintended side effects.

Ian

[The fat commuter]

^^

Same as going through a red light. You can't break the law to allow an emergency vehicle past. Such s stupid world that we live in sometimes.

[TonyR]

Many many years ago I was driving in a bus lane in London, not sure why, maybe I thought it was allowed.

A motorcycle policeman pulled me over and shouted: "Can't you read? That is a bus lane, can't [sic] drive there mate! Get aaht of it!"

It took four seconds and I think he did just the right thing, he did not treat me with unnecessary "respect" or try to give me therapy.

This was a formative experience for me, h elped to make me a fan of traffic law enforcement.

Don't see why that would work. Chances of getting caught by the same guy a second time is very small. So if you are someone who drives in bus lanes because you think it's ok to do so, then police encounter isn't going to change your mind.

An automated fine from a camera system will focus the mind much more readily. Rather than a guaranteed £65 fine, I'd take the dressing down any day.

Sorry to go a bit "off-topic" but a year or so ago I drove up to London (very very rare) and saw a car blocking an ambulance with blue flashing lights/sirens going. (S)he would not pull into a bus lane to get out of the way; ambulance was blocked by something else and could not get into bus lane (i.e. car could have pulled into bus lane but wouldn't, ambulance couldn't). I mentioned this to a friend who lives in London and they explained that people don't because, if you are then photographed by an automated camera, the "getting out of the way for an ambulance" is not an accepted excuse (as they wont go to the ambulance records to check if there might have been an ambulance in the area at that time). so if you don't know where the cameras are you are taking something of a risk and so people don't and so somebody in need of an ambulance (probably) has to wait longer.

Sometimes things can have unintended side effects.

Ian

Quite true and its not just London. People have been fined for pulling over the white line at a red traffic light to make room for an ambulance to get through - that's pulling over the white line, not crossing the junction on red.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/ ... icle-past/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -pass.html

[thelawnet]

^^

Same as going through a red light. You can't break the law to allow an emergency vehicle past. Such s stupid world that we live in sometimes.

It is a pretty bad idea to go through a red light though. Maybe 10 cm across the line, but if you go out into the intersection then you can end up causing a pile-up.

[Cyril Haearn]

What I am trying to find out is: do others on the forum (cyclists who also drive) respond the same way as I did?

The police can go to endless trouible with "education" but would it not be much more effective to wait near STOP signs and lines? These are ignored by almost all drivers.

The cops could ask loudly and "unpolitely": "can't you read?"

The media could take it up with "humour": "cops teach drivers to read".

Worked for me, would it work for you?