Close passes - the lower the better
-
- Posts: 1657
- Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm
Close passes - the lower the better
I have ridden all three machines in my stable this week and made an empirical assessment of how many close passes each bike suffers on a 15 mile urban/rural commute, the result is a bit interesting.
The safest by far is the Kettwiesel Trike, very few people passed me on the same side of the road!
Next best was my low racer (HP Velotechnik Speedmachine) everyone gave me at least 6 feet
The only machine that elicited any close passes (1/50 at about a metre) was my supposedly safe and visible high racer (Bacchetta Strada)
My conclusion; the lower, the weirder and the less like a 'normal' bike the better.
PS a couple of short trips on my upright folder were much scarier!
The safest by far is the Kettwiesel Trike, very few people passed me on the same side of the road!
Next best was my low racer (HP Velotechnik Speedmachine) everyone gave me at least 6 feet
The only machine that elicited any close passes (1/50 at about a metre) was my supposedly safe and visible high racer (Bacchetta Strada)
My conclusion; the lower, the weirder and the less like a 'normal' bike the better.
PS a couple of short trips on my upright folder were much scarier!
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
Got close passed by a National Express coach last evening (3rd) I think it really doesn't matter significantly which bike you're riding just which bell ends happen to be on your journey at any given time.
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
I don't know if weirder the better but IME trike > bent >> upwrong
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
I know there is a long running debate on the effect of different machines (upright, recumbent, trike) on the space given by passing traffic, but I wonder if some of that effect has more to do with the positioning of the machine on the road, with some (notably trikes) requiring the rider take up a bit more of the road. And, perhaps, some low level machines with their corresponding low level eye lines make it a tiny bit harder to see irregularities in the road surface, thus encouraging a careful rider to ride a little further out to avoid being trapped into riding over a pothole close to the gutter. I would be surprised if the height of a rider's view point did not have some effect on their positioning. And a rider's positioning, in my experience, influences the room given by passing traffic.
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
Anything out of the ordinary is treated with more respect than the ordinary.
When I tow my trailer, the difference is amazing in the way I'm passed and given space.
When I tow my trailer, the difference is amazing in the way I'm passed and given space.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
There are a few factors in play here...
1 - You will always have a chance of meeting a complete idiot in a motor vehicle.
This chance is relatively low, but can heavily distort small samples.
2 - Pet theory.
Motorists judge their overtaking distance to the wheel of the vehicle they are overtaking.
This means that trikes and trailers (with their wheels being a few inches outside of the person) get far more room than any two wheeler (which have their wheels nearly a foot inside of the person).
3 - Road positioning.
Most of us have experience as both a motorist and a cyclist that people riding closer to the gutter are far more likely to have people try to squeeze past. Once a motorist has had to 'decide' to overtake, they are far more likely to actually overtake properly.
4 - Stability / tolerance / perception.
On the trike I could tolerate slightly closer passes than I could on a bike - simply because the buffeting from the wake of the overtaking vehicle has less effect.
I'm sure there are more.
I'm not convinced that there is enough evidence to consider a "lower is better" verdict.
Anecdata:
Had a private hire vehicle overtake me incredibly closely, when I stopped to tell him that it had been a scary pass he said the sun was in his eyes. The sun was off at about a 30-40 degree angle from ahead The local licensing authority was very nice about it, and have recorded it on his PH data, which will be used if he is ever looked at for causing a collision in the future. They have also had a word with him.
That was on a lowracer...
1 - You will always have a chance of meeting a complete idiot in a motor vehicle.
This chance is relatively low, but can heavily distort small samples.
2 - Pet theory.
Motorists judge their overtaking distance to the wheel of the vehicle they are overtaking.
This means that trikes and trailers (with their wheels being a few inches outside of the person) get far more room than any two wheeler (which have their wheels nearly a foot inside of the person).
3 - Road positioning.
Most of us have experience as both a motorist and a cyclist that people riding closer to the gutter are far more likely to have people try to squeeze past. Once a motorist has had to 'decide' to overtake, they are far more likely to actually overtake properly.
4 - Stability / tolerance / perception.
On the trike I could tolerate slightly closer passes than I could on a bike - simply because the buffeting from the wake of the overtaking vehicle has less effect.
I'm sure there are more.
I'm not convinced that there is enough evidence to consider a "lower is better" verdict.
Anecdata:
Had a private hire vehicle overtake me incredibly closely, when I stopped to tell him that it had been a scary pass he said the sun was in his eyes. The sun was off at about a 30-40 degree angle from ahead The local licensing authority was very nice about it, and have recorded it on his PH data, which will be used if he is ever looked at for causing a collision in the future. They have also had a word with him.
That was on a lowracer...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
I suppose a lot must depend on what one calls a "close pass". Your (OP's) post suggests using 1m, but that struck me as a fairly normal pass. University of Bath research on passing distance in relation to rider "appearance" gives average passing distances between 1.14m and 1.22m depending on what rider is wearing. And those are average distances so 1m as a "close pass" seems a bit "distant". Of course I would love all cars to give more passing distance.
Ian
Ian
- NATURAL ANKLING
- Posts: 13780
- Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
- Location: English Riviera
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
Hi,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... t-03062015
Nine minutes 35 seconds in -
Now their worried.........whats the stats of danger to horse riders compared with near misses cars on cyclist
Edited
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... t-03062015
Nine minutes 35 seconds in -
Now their worried.........whats the stats of danger to horse riders compared with near misses cars on cyclist
Edited
Last edited by NATURAL ANKLING on 4 Jun 2015, 4:26pm, edited 1 time in total.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
-
- Posts: 1657
- Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
pwa wrote:I know there is a long running debate on the effect of different machines (upright, recumbent, trike) on the space given by passing traffic, but I wonder if some of that effect has more to do with the positioning of the machine on the road, with some (notably trikes) requiring the rider take up a bit more of the road. And, perhaps, some low level machines with their corresponding low level eye lines make it a tiny bit harder to see irregularities in the road surface, thus encouraging a careful rider to ride a little further out to avoid being trapped into riding over a pothole close to the gutter. I would be surprised if the height of a rider's view point did not have some effect on their positioning. And a rider's positioning, in my experience, influences the room given by passing traffic.
The positioning factor is, I agree, indisputable. When I haven't ridden in rush hour traffic for a week or so I have to keep reminding myself to move out or risk someone squeezing past. For this experiment I think I was consistent in road positioning (I ride the route very regularly) which is why I began to notice the closer passes on the Strada.
I agree with Mick F that a trailer is a wonderful safeguard too.
-
- Posts: 292
- Joined: 12 May 2014, 7:54pm
- Location: The hilly side of Sheffield
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
Psamathe wrote:I suppose a lot must depend on what one calls a "close pass". Your (OP's) post suggests using 1m, but that struck me as a fairly normal pass. University of Bath research on passing distance in relation to rider "appearance" gives average passing distances between 1.14m and 1.22m depending on what rider is wearing. And those are average distances so 1m as a "close pass" seems a bit "distant". Of course I would love all cars to give more passing distance.
Ian
When I wear my luminous orange top, vehicles pass much closer than when I wear luminous green/yellow.
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
The fat commuter wrote:Psamathe wrote:I suppose a lot must depend on what one calls a "close pass". Your (OP's) post suggests using 1m, but that struck me as a fairly normal pass. University of Bath research on passing distance in relation to rider "appearance" gives average passing distances between 1.14m and 1.22m depending on what rider is wearing. And those are average distances so 1m as a "close pass" seems a bit "distant". Of course I would love all cars to give more passing distance.
Ian
When I wear my luminous orange top, vehicles pass much closer than when I wear luminous green/yellow.
Many thanks - as I have been pondering getting an orange top (with a "Video Recording" text/graphic printed on). But if people think orange is not as effective then I won't bother.
Though, I do wear a bright (not hi-vis) orange T-shirt sprint/summer (cheap and cool), but they are a bit faded these days. When newer (and brighter) I'd not noticed any effect, but along the few busier roads I use, I seem to get a lot of passes way closer than others here call close (1m would be fantastic but a recent thread suggested people considered 1m close). Maybe colour again ?
Ian
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
My experince is that if I'm on a MTB with ordinary clothes,scruffier the better, and no helmet I receive lots of space from overtaking vehicles and no hassle. Out on a lightweight racing machine, in cycling gear and helmet they want to stay as close to my elbow as possible and I get the odd bit of abuse.
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
bigjim wrote:My experince is that if I'm on a MTB with ordinary clothes,scruffier the better, and no helmet I receive lots of space from overtaking vehicles and no hassle. Out on a lightweight racing machine, in cycling gear and helmet they want to stay as close to my elbow as possible and I get the odd bit of abuse.
I always wear a helmet, only forgot two or maybe three times in my life. Once was recently in an emergency where I shot out of the house and left it behind.
I didn't realise I wasn't wearing one until I was trying to work out why the traffic was giving me a wide berth. Though I had my cycling shoes on (with cleats), naturally I was also not wearing my usual cycling gear (lycra). Food for thought.
Once I realised I wasn't wearing a helmet, I felt very exposed, and may have ridden differently (though I don't think so) but up until then I would have been riding exactly the same as usual, so I certainly wasn't riding differently when I noticed what the traffic was doing.
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
This was published today -
Female cyclists are twice as likely as men to be subjected to bad driving and harassment from motorists, a new study by the Journal of Transport and Health has revealed. The research, which involved 1,500 cyclists detailing their experience over a one-week period in an online diary, also found that frightening experiences arising from near misses and hostile road users were a daily occurrence for most riders. Cyclists' accounts highlighted that female riders bore the brunt of drivers' frustration, as they tend to be slower than their male counterparts. On average women reported 0.42 incidents per mile cycled, compared to 0.24 for men. Most commonly, cyclists reported being overtaken too closely – which made up a third of reported incidents – and cars turning across their path, often on purpose. The study, titled the Near Miss Project, also showed that drivers are more likely to be hostile towards a cyclist if they are perceived to be holding them up.
0.42 and 0.24 incidents PER MILE. Goodness
Female cyclists are twice as likely as men to be subjected to bad driving and harassment from motorists, a new study by the Journal of Transport and Health has revealed. The research, which involved 1,500 cyclists detailing their experience over a one-week period in an online diary, also found that frightening experiences arising from near misses and hostile road users were a daily occurrence for most riders. Cyclists' accounts highlighted that female riders bore the brunt of drivers' frustration, as they tend to be slower than their male counterparts. On average women reported 0.42 incidents per mile cycled, compared to 0.24 for men. Most commonly, cyclists reported being overtaken too closely – which made up a third of reported incidents – and cars turning across their path, often on purpose. The study, titled the Near Miss Project, also showed that drivers are more likely to be hostile towards a cyclist if they are perceived to be holding them up.
0.42 and 0.24 incidents PER MILE. Goodness
Re: Close passes - the lower the better
chocjohn9 wrote:This was published today -
Female cyclists are twice as likely as men to be subjected to bad driving and harassment from motorists, a new study by the Journal of Transport and Health has revealed. The research, which involved 1,500 cyclists detailing their experience over a one-week period in an online diary, also found that frightening experiences arising from near misses and hostile road users were a daily occurrence for most riders. Cyclists' accounts highlighted that female riders bore the brunt of drivers' frustration, as they tend to be slower than their male counterparts. On average women reported 0.42 incidents per mile cycled, compared to 0.24 for men. Most commonly, cyclists reported being overtaken too closely – which made up a third of reported incidents – and cars turning across their path, often on purpose. The study, titled the Near Miss Project, also showed that drivers are more likely to be hostile towards a cyclist if they are perceived to be holding them up.
0.42 and 0.24 incidents PER MILE. Goodness :shock:
Your description suggests the research was carried out from reports from individuals experiencing close passes. Without reference to the report it's difficult to comment but if based on reports from individuals it could be subject to a lot of skewing factors.
Ian