Are Female Cyclist more at risk

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landsurfer
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by landsurfer »

Rather than just having a go. . Read ...
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by Vorpal »

Spatial awareness differences are between men and women are down to training and nothing more. http://phys.org/news/2011-08-disputes-n ... women.html

It may affect the outcome in some of these accidents, but I suspect that women who cycle regularly improve their spatial awareness, and that there are also other factors at play.
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Mike Sales
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by Mike Sales »

kwackers wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:If women DO have less SA what implication does it have for their driving?

I'm guessing speeds/distances etc as set out in the highway code plus the driving test set a fairly low barrier for such things. I doubt they're set to tax those with superlative SA.


I was thinking about how women's driving might manifest this assumed failing. I have read that the only insurance policies which have a differential sex premium give a lower price to women. Also, that women have more low speed (parking) dints, but fewer more dangerous accidents. Please note, I am not claiming these as facts, but I am wondering that if there is a real difference in cycling style, whether this might be expressed in driving, and how.
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by Vorpal »

I *think*, but I don't know that it results in women being more cautious drivers. This is an advantage when they are in charge of a motor vehicle. It is less of an advantage when riding a bicycle, if cautious becomes close to the kerb.
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by Vorpal »

Thinking about it.... I'm sure it is also affected by confidence. A confident person is more decisive, most of the those decisions are good, some may be bad. The ones that have good results increase confidence, but they may also lead to taking more risks. Consistently being able to judge the speed of a car approaching a junction? Maybe a second look isn't needed.

Not being able to consistently judge the speed of a car approaching a junction? Always look twice.

Mind, these are just my thoughts, and nothing scientific about it. I don't know if there is any research on it.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Mike Sales
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by Mike Sales »

Interesting thoughts, Vorpal. Drivers who are supposed to be very skilful, like racing drivers, nevertheless have accidents. John Adams distinguishes between skill at knowing where the limits of safety are, and willingness to go close to the limit. The propensity to take risks must have different results in cars and on a bike.
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by Vorpal »

Mike Sales wrote:Interesting thoughts, Vorpal. Drivers who are supposed to be very skilful, like racing drivers, nevertheless have accidents. John Adams distinguishes between skill at knowing where the limits of safety are, and willingness to go close to the limit. The propensity to take risks must have different results in cars and on a bike.

I like the idea of separating skill at judging the limits and willingness to go close to them.

I'll have to go do some reading on John Adams' site.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Mike Sales
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by Mike Sales »

Vorpal wrote:I'll have to go do some reading on John Adams' site.


His book "Risk" changed my understanding of how humans deal with the risks and rewards of life. I recommend it to every cyclist, and indeed everyone, I fear with little result.
"Risk" just gave a structure to so many of the ideas experience had shown me.
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TonyR
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by TonyR »

Transport for London looked into why cyclist deaths are disproportionately women and put it down to them obeying red lights.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8296971.stm
nez
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by nez »

kwackers wrote:
ArMoRothair wrote:I can't believe these tragic deaths are happening through recklessness. If sweeping statements can be made I would certainly say that women are not as reckless as men. So what is it?

We've a road system that takes large testicles to use in heavy city traffic, to plonk yourself in the middle of a lane and risk 'inconveniencing' righteous drivers - particularly when they sit inches from your rear tyre.
I think it simply favours aggressive males and in that respect it's not so much recklessness as a more 'meek' approach to cycling in traffic that's the problem.

I'm sure you're right. God knows what we do to change it.
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by Tonyf33 »

Cycling back from the hospital on Thursday a women passed the exit right in the gutter. I turned into the main road, pulled alongside her and politely told her she was in far more danger cycling in the gutter than she would being more central. But she was fine with her helmet/hi-vis and all, especially hidden behind the overhanging trees/shrubbery and bend due to her road position. :roll:
Some people you just can't tell sadly and though the stats show motorvehicles are at fault most of the time, many cyclists just don't follow the rules and get into bother and worst case lose their lives because of their error.
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by TonyR »

nez dans le guidon wrote:I'm sure you're right. God knows what we do to change it.


You deal with the cause not the victim. A simple ban on HGVs in cities at commuting times and on other than suitable roads at all times, a minimum of Crossrail standards and presumed liability when one does hit a cyclist would be a good start. Dublin has done the former and London is doing the middle one from September. No-one in the UK is doing the latter which would require a national law change. I still see far too many HGVs without the basic safety features such as side bars, adequate mirrors/cameras and sensors.
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by Vorpal »

TonyR wrote:Transport for London looked into why cyclist deaths are disproportionately women and put it down to them obeying red lights.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8296971.stm

This has been discussed before on this forum. But all we know is that various media have reported that TfL has such a report.

As far as I know, no one has actually seen such a report.

Anyway, I think that's a pretty poor way to put it. Once a cyclist is in front of a turning lorry, it may be safer to jump a red light. But I honestly can't see that anyone using a scientific approach could conclude that the disproportionate representation of women in lorry cyclist crashes is because of a failure to jump red lights.

Without clear evidence, I would expect that there are a number of factors involved.
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Si
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by Si »

Spacial Awareness - what do we mean by this? Do we mean some innate ability to 'know' what is all around you in an instant without making any concious effort? Or do we mean actually making the effort to open your eyes and look at what is around you, and then think about it? If the latter then I see no reason why a woman should be any worse at this than a man (my experience of teaching people to ride and of teaching L3 especially, certainly suggests that women are no worse at this than men). If the former then maybe there are some minor inbuilt differences, I don't know, but I put it to the jury that in the majority of cases this makes no difference at all. Being able to ride by observation and thought rather than 'instinct' and instant reaction is something that virtually anyone can do be they male or female. It is not something that needs lightening quick reactions but rather the ability to calmly observe the road around you and make logical decisions based upon one's hazard perception. For instance, knowing not to ride up the left side of a lorry at a red traffic light is nothing to do with bike handling skill, strength, reaction speed, or being able to take in a situation in a blink, rather it is to do with cooling assessing the situation and making an informed decision. Thus, it seems to me, that there should be no difference between men and women.

Of course there are instances when, despite having done everything properly, one has to rely on speed of unthinking reaction to avoid collision, but I would suggest that these are much less common than people think and that if one really did carry out correct hazard perception, etc these such instances are massively reduced.

Anyway, usual rider: I am not blaming victims for being hit by bad drivers, but rather discussing how they could have mitigated against others' errors better.
TonyR
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Re: Are Female Cyclist more at risk

Post by TonyR »

Vorpal wrote:This has been discussed before on this forum. But all we know is that various media have reported that TfL has such a report.

As far as I know, no one has actually seen such a report.


Since a number of media outlets, such as theGuardian have quoted from the "leaked" report I think we can assume some at least outside TfL have seen the report and it exists.
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