Does anyone like........ chipseal?

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ChrisButch
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Re: Does anyone like........ chipseal?

Post by ChrisButch »

There have been numerous threads on this subject in the past, but this is the first time I've come across the term 'chipseal' applied to this all-too-familar process. Is this a very recent neologism?
old_windbag
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Re: Does anyone like........ chipseal?

Post by old_windbag »

I've always used the term since I first encountered it on the road. Perhaps I picked it up from investigating the method after not liking that much..... anyway even wikipaedia has an entry for it. I associate it with america but again that could be influenced by what I've read and the many people who dislike it, even motorcycle and car drivers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipseal

When I came in fuming the other day ( well when you get to mid life it's expected ) I found an interesting blog site where the writer was complaining about similar road resurfacing, the blog turned out to be an interesting read by a chap who seems pretty chilled out and switched on to life. He's an ultra long distance bike rider it seems. See below:-

http://kentsbike.blogspot.co.uk/

It's good to know that across all continents there are people who think similarly and want to enjoy the same aspects of life and be creative..... not simply invade, destroy, steal( rant over ). All that from my dislike of chipseal.
MikeF
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Re: Does anyone like........ chipseal?

Post by MikeF »

old_windbag wrote:Like so many things, schools , hospitals etc it must differ county by county as to what you get. Some authorities may want to do a job properly whereas others are happy to do it half cocked to save a bob. One thought I had about it was does it save them gritting the roads i.e on smooth asphalt its essential but perhaps on the rougher surface they may forego gritting it.
Most of the surfaces I've seen done tend not to last much more than 3yrs before the become patchy.... perhaps thats when it hasn't been done properly in the first place.

At the end of the day smooth tarmac ( billiard table flat ) is heaven to ride on, just makes your effort feel fully utilised like good tyres.

Here it's (or was) usually referred as "surface dressing". Apparently it's supposed to extend the "life" of the road surface, and it's cheaper so that's why it's done. However I agree that for cyclists it provides a potential "slippery" surface when it's first laid, and quite frequently after a time it lifts in patches from the road base causing more hazards. A smooth surface is definitely easier to cycle on. Recently Surrey CC has re-laid a few roads with nice smooth black top and some of these roads are minor. :)

There isn't any effect as regards "gritting" the roads on the surface. As far as I know all "gritting" is salt and there now isn't any grit. No-one seems to worry about pollution caused vast amounts of salt being deposited, and if it's referred to as grit there isn't a problem! :roll:

Edit to add http://www.highwaysmaintenance.com/SDtext.htm, but I still don't like it! The author is clearly not a cyclist!
Last edited by MikeF on 24 May 2015, 11:47am, edited 1 time in total.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Does anyone like........ chipseal?

Post by reohn2 »

I don't like chip 'n sealed tarmac as much as the next cyclist,especially when done badly or it becomes patchy,or when first applied isn't swept after a short period of settling and is left with two wheeler skid traps on junctions and bends.
All that said when it's bedded in and the loose chippings swept,I don't find it a problem at all on the tyres I ride these days(37/40mm Hypers),however on narrow 23/25mm HP tyres it's diabolical for anything but short stretches and is the worst cause of high frequency vibration for cyclist's who ride such tyres.
Without mudguards loose chips also get picked up by the tyre and can chip paint or possibly CF frames and forks.
It's a road dressing we're stuck with(sorry)so better just learn to live with it.
One thing that I find really irritating is how it camouflages bad road deformations and potholes,but what's to be done?
Given that it's purpose is to prolong the service life of the road surface,with the state of even major roads beginning to deteriorate alarmingly and repairs by some LA's from a cyclists POV being almost as bad as the road surface prior to repair it's a bit of a rough ride(sorry again) for the cyclist.
Society seems more interested in paying less taxes whilst at the same time buying ever bigger cars(causing more and more pollution)to counter those bad roads thereby speeding up the deterioration those bigger vehicles cause :?
IMHO there's something going seriously wrong with our outlook on personal transportation and taxation :?
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old_windbag
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Re: Does anyone like........ chipseal?

Post by old_windbag »

Very good points by all. On the taxation front I've beefed on for years that we need to pay more tax if we want to have the best infrastructure, hospitals, educational institutes etc. Unfortunately the political parties seem to have always gone for votes in a bidding war of reducing tax..... we all don't like having to pay it but it's essential if we want the best when we come to need it. We should be the envy of the world with people wanting to copy us. I think moving the lower paid out of taxation is correct but increasing it for all ( and there are many ) who really do have comfortable lives would not hurt. There is extreme poverty in the UK but for most I think they don't know how well off they are, particularly in the cars, houses they purchase but TV, magazines etc push it home you're a failure without the new SUV etc. Programmes like escape to the country with smug individuals make me explode, "ooh we need rooms for daphne to do her embroidery and at least 10 acres of land for johns greenhouse" :) . One taxation I feel is very unjust is council tax. I was made redundant but even without salary I had to pay £100 a month council tax. For me to charge a tax for all who work( in again a fair manner with lower limits and upper cap ) and hence therefore have access and use of leisure centres, libraries, local amenities would distribute the load more fairly and evenly with ( treating everyone as an individual not an item ) lower bills. I was told by a knight of the realm MP that this was not popular with voters? It does not stack up that the value of your property reflects your demands on services, its just a cheap illogical method of billing.

I'd also like to see student grants brought back and loans abolished..... and no tax subsidised final salary pensions with early retirement..... the UK is quite financially polarised I feel more so than yesteryear but extending to much more of the population.

Aarrrgggh all that angst from chipseal :D .
MikeF
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Re: Does anyone like........ chipseal?

Post by MikeF »

Here is Surrey's plan. If the roads they've done are part of this plan then it looks good. The surface is very good for cycling. I noticed on one road (B2028 Marsh Green Nr Edenbridge to Lingfield) that one or two "faults" occurred after completion, but these have been repaired to what looks like a high standard presumably by the contractor. I'm hoping one of the designated "Surrey Cycleway" might be done as well as it is breaking up because of utility trenches. That raises the question of whether utilities should have much more responsibility for repair of damage caused to roads. It's often "the council" that receives the blame, but the utiliries cause the damage. :wink:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
reohn2
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Re: Does anyone like........ chipseal?

Post by reohn2 »

MikeF wrote:...... I'm hoping one of the designated "Surrey Cycleway" might be done as well as it is breaking up because of utility trenches. That raises the question of whether utilities should have much more responsibility for repair of damage caused to roads. It's often "the council" that receives the blame, but the utiliries cause the damage. :wink:


It always amazes me just how bad such trenches sink and deform after reinstatement without contractors being made to make good any deformation/deterioration.
Particularly on the edges,which can be lethal for cyclists with gaps sometimes opening up to as much as an inch(25mm) or more,causing water ingress and further deterioration with fist sized lumps breaking away,particularly after prolonged winter frosts.
On a slightly different tack,locally the council in their wisdom have just completely resurfaced a 400m section of footway which is never,and I mean never,used in a sparcely populated area,whilst not more than a further 400mm away on tight S bend the road surface is breaking up terribly and is cause for concern for any two wheeled vehicle.
What criteria is used to determine such priorities I've no idea,but it seems misplaced IMHO.
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CREPELLO
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Re: Does anyone like........ chipseal?

Post by CREPELLO »

My personal gripe is that Shropshire council seem to have a habit of relaying with a nice silky smooth bed of tarmac. Then 6 months or so later they go and blast it all with chip n seal :evil: . My local main road was like this and now has a surface the consistency of lumpy porridge...which is coming away in places. Why, Shropshire council???

I've noticed that wider main roads covered thus or far worse to ride than treated back lanes. They use the largest diameter chip to allow for heavy vehicles that compact it. A wide road might have substantial side sections that receive hardly any traffic, and so remain unworn with chips remaining proud. Cycling these sections when they are uphill is particularly tedious, to say the least (the smooth sections being somewhere out in primary road position).

Chip sealed back lanes often have smaller diameter chips laid and after a month or so they are fine to ride on.
old_windbag
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Re: Does anyone like........ chipseal?

Post by old_windbag »

The chipseal technology link was a good read.... though I have not read it inside out. But it answers many queries as well as demonstrating just how easy it can be to get either a good smooth surface or a shoddy one. It also points to ensuring you get the best road gang together with experience etc but that can be impossible due to timing and availibility. It seems a method that is easy to mess up but is cheap, I think I'd prefer to pay the extra and have a smooth surface with minimal margin for error.
Utility companies make some terrible messes ( as per trenches mentioned ) and if they did that on your drive you'd chase them legally to return and finish the job properly. That doesn't seem to happen where councils are concerned.. I'd have thought the utility companies contractors would have to reinspect after so many months for sinkage and cracking and reinstate if needed but again this never seems to happen. In gateshead I remember a poor quality heavily used industrial estate road resurfaced beautifully with smooth tarmac.... a joy in any mode of transport. About 2 weeks later the water or gas board came and dug 10ft by 10ft holes to install a new main down the length of the road every 30yds or so... new surface now ruined not for accidental utility leak but planned water main replacement. So there must be no communication between different bodies to do tasks in the right order.
MikeF
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Re: Does anyone like........ chipseal?

Post by MikeF »

CREPELLO wrote:My personal gripe is that Shropshire council seem to have a habit of relaying with a nice silky smooth bed of tarmac. Then 6 months or so later they go and blast it all with chip n seal :evil: . My local main road was like this and now has a surface the consistency of lumpy porridge...which is coming away in places. Why, Shropshire council???
It's not just Shropshire CC. East Sussex CC did that to a road a year or so ago, but I don't think it's normally done. Much of the surface dressing has lifted, especially on a hill. :( The road was closed last week for road repairs :roll: so I avoided it. I'm "interested" to see what has been done. :wink:

Surrey CC surface dressed a minor road a few months after relaying it, but before the latest road surfacing contract. Agree it's infuriating, although the Surrey road surface is fine, but it's not smooth, and why was it done!

There is a duty for utilities to make good, but in my view it is far from satisfactory. I think it has to remain good for something like 6 months, maybe a year, but it's too short a time
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
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