24 miles: car slower than cycling?

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Vorpal
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Re: 24 miles: car slower than cycling?

Post by Vorpal »

horizon wrote:I didn't really think a 24 round trip commute was ideal but don't forget that the working day now finishes an hour earlier if you're not paying for the car.

But it doesn't for someone in a part time or minimum wage job who needs to work as many hours as s/he can get, just for the money (car or no car). It means a little more money for shopping or bills, not less work.

Yes, but the other outcome is that friend of Mini V spent less time in the back of a car and her Mum may have had a bit of a life. In fact they may even have spent some face-to-face time together instead of dashing off to the next specious social event.

On the whole though, this thread is about acknowledging other factors rather than proposing that the bike is always at an advantage - even I cannot claim that.

The mum didn't 'have a bit of a life'. She couldn't earn enough on a part time job at a local retailer, so she spent her 'spare' time buying small items, from estate liquidators and car boot sales, and reselling them online.

But yes, I agree that we should acknowledge other factors. I think it is generally a downfall, for *everyone* doing the calculations for what house they can afford, not to consider time as money. Especially when it come to commuting time.

IMO, Many people who commute an hour to a city because they can't afford housing there, might look at it differently, if they counted the cost for all of those hours spent commuting.
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mjr
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Re: 24 miles: car slower than cycling?

Post by mjr »

beardy wrote:Couriers frequently did 50,000 miles a year in Fiesta diesels, perfectly adequate vehicle for the mileage and if you wanted to travel cheaply they were ideal. Still a LOT more comfortable and cosy than being out on a bike in bad weather, which is what we are comparing against here.

Oh no it isn't! Driving well in bad weather isn't easy either and you still have loads of others driving badly to contend with. Apart from reduced brakes, a bike isn't bad in bad weather as long as you have suitable clothes. I am comfortable for at least an hour with my raincoat, rainlegs and waterproof gloves and boots.

There is a lot of bravado about riding in bad weather but it really isn't so bad. It takes longer but so does motoring. More fun in good weather, of course. :)
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horizon
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Re: 24 miles: car slower than cycling?

Post by horizon »

Vorpal wrote:
horizon wrote:I didn't really think a 24 round trip commute was ideal but don't forget that the working day now finishes an hour earlier if you're not paying for the car.

But it doesn't for someone in a part time or minimum wage job who needs to work as many hours as s/he can get, just for the money (car or no car). It means a little more money for shopping or bills, not less work.

Yes, but the other outcome is that friend of Mini V spent less time in the back of a car and her Mum may have had a bit of a life. In fact they may even have spent some face-to-face time together instead of dashing off to the next specious social event.

On the whole though, this thread is about acknowledging other factors rather than proposing that the bike is always at an advantage - even I cannot claim that.

The mum didn't 'have a bit of a life'. She couldn't earn enough on a part time job at a local retailer, so she spent her 'spare' time buying small items, from estate liquidators and car boot sales, and reselling them online.

But yes, I agree that we should acknowledge other factors. I think it is generally a downfall, for *everyone* doing the calculations for what house they can afford, not to consider time as money. Especially when it come to commuting time.

IMO, Many people who commute an hour to a city because they can't afford housing there, might look at it differently, if they counted the cost for all of those hours spent commuting.


Vorpal: I wish we had some proper figures for this (and the participation of your friend!). My guess is that for low-income families, a car is disastrous financially. But living without a car would require a complete reappraisal of their life style and It's not my job to suggest that for them. What I do believe is that there is a better way of life out there for both parents and children once you take the car out of the equation. This could mean anything from choosing to work only locally, foregoing the ballet classes and shopping on-line to making better use of time at home and seeing cycling to school and work as part of the enjoyment of life, not a punishment. However, that is a personal choice and it's not for me to tell other people how they should live their lives.

But, and this is the big but, I don't even have the figures to back up my claim so I will have to leave that to others.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
toomsie
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Re: 24 miles: car slower than cycling?

Post by toomsie »

horizon wrote:Vorpal: I wish we had some proper figures for this (and the participation of your friend!). My guess is that for low-income families, a car is disastrous financially.


I believe the government had a part to play. Back in old day when cars was expensive and unreliable. Many car owners became cabbies then the government regulated the hell out the market forcing folk to own their own cars opposed to taking a cab.
Ben@Forest
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Re: 24 miles: car slower than cycling?

Post by Ben@Forest »

horizon wrote:I wish we had some proper figures for this (and the participation of your friend!). My guess is that for low-income families, a car is disastrous financially. But living without a car would require a complete reappraisal of their life style and It's not my job to suggest that for them...


I think that for some low-income families not having a car would be financially disastrous. Outside cities and big towns there is no meaningful public transport for working people because the buses are not regular enough. I live about 25 miles from work but if I tried to use the buses to get there there would be two changes and, using the earliest service I would arrive at 12.15pm. I'd have to leave at 1.00.pm. And I'd have to walk two miles to the bus stop in the first place (and back again at the end). I can cycle to work quite easily but what about the other commitments of food shopping, picking up or just looking after children, needing to get to the doctor's surgery within hours? Less-well off people do often live in out-of-the-way areas. Their £1,000 Fiesta is a lifeline.
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horizon
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Re: 24 miles: car slower than cycling?

Post by horizon »

Ben@Forest wrote:
horizon wrote:I wish we had some proper figures for this (and the participation of your friend!). My guess is that for low-income families, a car is disastrous financially. But living without a car would require a complete reappraisal of their life style and It's not my job to suggest that for them...


I think that for some low-income families not having a car would be financially disastrous. Outside cities and big towns there is no meaningful public transport for working people because the buses are not regular enough. I live about 25 miles from work but if I tried to use the buses to get there there would be two changes and, using the earliest service I would arrive at 12.15pm. I'd have to leave at 1.00.pm. And I'd have to walk two miles to the bus stop in the first place (and back again at the end). I can cycle to work quite easily but what about the other commitments of food shopping, picking up or just looking after children, needing to get to the doctor's surgery within hours? Less-well off people do often live in out-of-the-way areas. Their £1,000 Fiesta is a lifeline.


Like I said, I'm only guessing and it would mean a re-appraisal of one's lifestyle. There are some journeys only a car can do so it's either a car or not doing the journey. According to the AA et al your 25 mile commute costs about £22 per day or £450 per month. Add on tax and you're up to £540 per month so you could argue that there must be better alternatives locally. In reality, that Fiesta doesn't cost that much and the job is vital. I simply don't know the answer to this. My surmise (and it's only a surmise) is that the marginality of car costs hides the true costs and that we often put the cart before the horse: "I couldn't do X journey without a car" whereas you might be saying "I can have a car - what journeys could I make?". The resulting traffic jam is cured by the motorway which extends the reach of the daily commute ...

One thing that this thread has made clear is that the real cost of motoring is very unclear. Except of course the displaced cost to the environment: there is a mismatch between personal cost and social cost but that is for governments to fix, not the hard-pressed individual.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Manc33
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Re: 24 miles: car slower than cycling?

Post by Manc33 »

With the amount of tinkering and buying/selling parts I do (all in the pursuit of creating the perfect bike for my own use) I think the cost is probably higher than driving. :lol:
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Re: 24 miles: car slower than cycling?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Manc33 wrote:With the amount of tinkering and buying/selling parts I do (all in the pursuit of creating the perfect bike for my own use) I think the cost is probably higher than driving. :lol:

But you should be comparing with the youths who tinker with their cars, or even the Keen hotrodders
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