Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happy

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Vorpal
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by Vorpal »

It did help our village school to have the PCSOs hanging about now and again at school start and home time. It especially helped the dire parking that was going on. It's worth asking about. But I'd be very surprised if admin can get any PCSOs to ride with them to school.
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DaveP
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by DaveP »

I think I'm with pwa here - the kids come first, and if they are losing sleep over it, it's time for a change. Whether you see it as infuriating, depressing, humiliating or all of these, you can't carry on as you are.
Kids on their own bikes with parent riding bodyguard might work out, but then, I imagine, cycle storage could well be an issue.
It's walk or drive time.
You are all going to have to tackle the "going to school on their own" issue fairly soon, and by the sound of it the kids currently have a good understanding of the dangers of the roads. So so you think they could, just possibly, be trusted with at least part of the trip now?
Its a good time of year to make the experiment - weather and lighting all favourable.
Walk them to the gate for a week and discuss any hazards you spot, then pick a spot to say goodbye. If there's a road crossing that you really see as too dangerous then don't force it. Take them that far for the next year and let them manage the rest. Still helps with your own time management, and they are learning stuff they need to learn.
Similarly with the driving option - could you set them down just short of the school parking problem zone and allow them to do the last leg under their own steam?
It's nerve wracking whatever age they are :)
Trying to retain enough fitness to grow old disgracefully... That hasn't changed!
TonyR
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by TonyR »

DaveP wrote:It's walk or drive time.


Not drive I hope or it's just adding to the school run chaos we all complain about
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by admin »

Elizabeth_S wrote:Have you got a 20 mph zone outside your school, or is this just Scotland?


We have a 20mph part-time advisory speed limit outside the school, but:

  • This only covers the last ten metres of our mile-and-a-quarter route to school.
  • At school times there's so much motor traffic you'd be lucky to go much faster than 10mph anyway
  • Outside the school is probably the safest part of our trip, as almost all drivers there are parents at our school, who see us every day and know who we are.
  • West Sussex County Council have repeatedly said that it has nothing to do with safety, and they don't expect it to make anyone safer. It's designed to generate "behaviour change", but it doesn't do that either!

We have campaigned for area-wide 20mph limits, so all the streets we use to get to school, and where people live, have safer speeds. Sadly WSCC really don't like the idea: an officer I spoke to said there were better ways to improve safety, but then couldn't actually say what those ways were when I asked. WSCC are institutionally motorist.
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by Psamathe »

admin wrote:We have campaigned for area-wide 20mph limits, so all the streets we use to get to school, and where people live, have safer speeds. Sadly WSCC really don't like the idea: an officer I spoke to said there were better ways to improve safety, but then couldn't actually say what those ways were when I asked. WSCC are institutionally motorist.

Maybe this is the time to push the Council hard. Use words like your children being "terrorised" by bad driving and forced to stop cycling (forcing you to drive). Go to a Council Meeting and ask questions of the Council. Get your Councillor to argue on your/the schools behalf. It actually will probably take less time than you think. Reflect on your arguments/points, then call appropriate staff (again - give them another recent chance), discuss with a few other sympathetic parents and school, telephone your ward Councillor and then go to the next Council meeting.

By "reflecting on your points" I mean use of words/phrases e.g ""children being terrorised by bad and dangerous driving", "going to bed in tears from fear", "forced to drive" (ignore walking), "at this point I have not discussed the issues with the local press in the belief the Council can implement a better more effective solution without a press campaign hindering them", etc.

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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by admin »

Psamathe wrote:Maybe this is the time to push the Council hard. Use words like your children being "terrorised" by bad driving and forced to stop cycling (forcing you to drive). Go to a Council Meeting and ask questions of the Council. Get your Councillor to argue on your/the schools behalf. It actually will probably take less time than you think. Reflect on your arguments/points, then call appropriate staff (again - give them another recent chance), discuss with a few other sympathetic parents and school, telephone your ward Councillor and then go to the next Council meeting.


Heh, I've been going to council meetings for more than 20 years now. Neither the elected members nor the officers think cycling is a mode of transport, they think it's a sport or something children do at the park. Both the Worthing Cycle Forum and the West Sussex Cycle Forum push very hard, as much as possible, but it's like bashing your head against a brick wall. We're the only family in a school of 400 children cycling to school, and it'll make no difference to anything if we stop cycling too. With the current emphasis on making it as easy as possible to drive by car, thanks to the Tories' idea that motor traffic equals economic growth, it's not going to change any time soon (unless the Greens get in!).

We did have a pretty good attempt to get 20's Plenty in Worthing, with all the usual good arguments. The local Borough Council were unanimous in supporting it, and forced County to run a huge consultation with the entire population of Worthing. Sadly the Alliance of British Drivers ("speed limits are dangerous") got in bed with UKIP and a local bus company (owner is a UKIP candidate) and managed to completely swamp the place with adverts (which ASA told them to take down as they were badly misleading). The result was a majority "No" vote, and all Borough councillors voting against taking 20mph limits any further. Not helped at all by a few new Tory councillors who explicitly think that "cyclists get in the way of motorists", and thus cycling should be discouraged wherever possible. Not helped, either, by WSCC deliberately including a threat that 20mph limits would result in bus service cuts in the official documentation: again, WSCC really don't like slower speeds, and Chichester only got 20's Plenty because they were caught off guard.

On another front, West Sussex County council are spending £6 million of sustainable transport money from the Coast to Capital LEP, on something they call the "Worthing Sustainable Transport Package". This consists entirely of repaving an existing pedestriamised shopping street, and explicitly has "nil" benefits for transport. I am in the process of making official complaints about this, because £6 million could have made a big difference to transport in Worting if they spent in on transport improvements.
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by TonyR »

Psamathe wrote:Use words like your children being "terrorised" by bad driving and forced to stop cycling (forcing you to drive).


They'll probably get branded irresponsible parents instead for cycling them to school. See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... alone.html
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by Postboxer »

Drive to school, but at the speed you would be cycling at, tell the papers, and cover your car in posters explaining that you are driving to school at cycling speed to protest against inconsiderate, dangerous drivers who have frightened your children away from cycling. Finish the poster by questioning whether it's easier to overtake your car safely, or your cycle.
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by bigjim »

Heh, I've been going to council meetings for more than 20 years now. Neither the elected members nor the officers think cycling is a mode of transport, they think it's a sport or something children do at the park.

I don't think that is quite correct. Many council officers do cycle, probably more than in the private sector and tend to be quite Green thinking. The officers do try express their opinions to Elected Members. I've been there and done that. However many of these are old school thinkers and also see their voters are predominately drivers. So will not upset them.
I think the OP is on a loser in trying to change opinions regarding schools, parents and children cycling. We are becoming ever-more a nanny state. I cycle reuglarly past a High school with 1400 pupils. On a lovely sunny morning last week there was only one bicycle in the high capacity bike sheds at the side of this new modern, expensive school.
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by Vantage »

It depends on where one lives.
My fiancée's eldest son's school has quite a few kids who cycle to and from there. I see at least 10-15 any weekday passing us. Including a few who carry their friends to home on the handlebars :shock: A few of the teachers also cycle to work.
It's a sad state of affairs when the roads are so bad that kids are scared to cycle on them. I never had that fear when I was a kid. I know my daughters are afraid. The roads are worse than ever these days.
I'm sure you'll do what's best for you and your children but I'm sure we all agree, their happiness is what's most important.
I'm not in your situation and it's entirely possible my own views might well change if I were, but if I was, I might consider keeping the cycling as an activity for the weekend for the short term until their confidence grows enough to cycle the school run again in future.
I hope you find a solution that you are all happy with :)
Bill


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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by Flinders »

bigjim wrote:
Heh, I've been going to council meetings for more than 20 years now. Neither the elected members nor the officers think cycling is a mode of transport, they think it's a sport or something children do at the park.

I don't think that is quite correct. Many council officers do cycle, probably more than in the private sector and tend to be quite Green thinking. The officers do try express their opinions to Elected Members. I've been there and done that. However many of these are old school thinkers and also see their voters are predominately drivers. So will not upset them.
I think the OP is on a loser in trying to change opinions regarding schools, parents and children cycling. We are becoming ever-more a nanny state. I cycle reuglarly past a High school with 1400 pupils. On a lovely sunny morning last week there was only one bicycle in the high capacity bike sheds at the side of this new modern, expensive school.


It's not the nanny state at all. If anything, it's the reverse. It's the state not taking a strong enough stand against dangerous driving, allowing the free-for-all, 'biggest and heaviest can bully anyone they like' culture that's scaring these kids off the roads.
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by Vorpal »

It's a strange juxtaposition; that the government is unwilling to take real action to protect cyclists and pedestrians, yet promote a risk averse culture that has us banning children from cycling, and cutting down trees in school yards to prevent children climbing them. :twisted:
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by bigjim »

It's not the nanny state at all.
Disagree. You have viewed it in the wrong context. I refer to parents attitude these days. Kids are very wrapped up to protect from hazards that are sometimes more imagined than reality. Every lone male is viewed with suspicion. Granny can't offer a child a sweet anymore. Don't buy them a bike, it's too dangerous. Can't walk alone anywhere.
I don't think most 10+ kids are frightened of riding a bike in traffic. They are just not offered the opportunity. They are however allowed a go in the local park or rail trail, complete with helmet of course. I'm a father and grandfather so I do experience this first hand.
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by TonyR »

bigjim wrote:
It's not the nanny state at all.
Disagree. You have viewed it in the wrong context. I refer to parents attitude these days. Kids are very wrapped up to protect from hazards that are sometimes more imagined than reality. Every lone male is viewed with suspicion. Granny can't offer a child a sweet anymore. Don't buy them a bike, it's too dangerous. Can't walk alone anywhere.
I don't think most 10+ kids are frightened of riding a bike in traffic. They are just not offered the opportunity. They are however allowed a go in the local park or rail trail, complete with helmet of course. I'm a father and grandfather so I do experience this first hand.


I can recommend the really good book by Tim Gill - he of the very sensible report for the Scottish Government on child cycling and helmets - No Fear: Growing up in a risk averse society. As Tanya Byron says of it

“Beautifully written […] lays out very simply how we are absolutely screwing the development of children, given our complete paranoid fear of the world we live in.”
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Re: Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happ

Post by Flinders »

bigjim wrote:
It's not the nanny state at all.
Disagree. You have viewed it in the wrong context. I refer to parents attitude these days. Kids are very wrapped up to protect from hazards that are sometimes more imagined than reality. Every lone male is viewed with suspicion. Granny can't offer a child a sweet anymore. Don't buy them a bike, it's too dangerous. Can't walk alone anywhere.
I don't think most 10+ kids are frightened of riding a bike in traffic. They are just not offered the opportunity. They are however allowed a go in the local park or rail trail, complete with helmet of course. I'm a father and grandfather so I do experience this first hand.


I do get what you say. I wouldn't dare approach a child in distress now, I'd phone the police and keep watch, that's about all I would dare do, short of a situation where I felt I had to intervene because there was direct physical violence taking place. And I'm a late middle-aged woman - it would be even worse if I were a man. One parent writing in a paper recently said that when she was at a cashpoint, one of her kids had wandered off a few yards and she found her talking to an adult. The woman said she had screamed at the adult because any adult talking to her child was a threat. Imagine how that adult must have felt, to be screamed at by this demented woman in the street as if she was a child molester. And then parents want us to protect their kids when things really do go wrong.

But traffic is far and away worse in quantity and attitude than it was when I was a nipper, and most of those bad drivers will be- wait for it - parents. Who, once they are in the safety of their own car, don't give a damn about the safety of other people's kids. And the government is doing less even than it used to do to get drivers to drive safely.

When I was a kid we played out on the 'front street' in the evenings. But on that whole street of dozens of houses, there were only two cars in total. Now there would be one, if not two, per house. It was safer for parents to allow their kids to have bikes then (though as it happens, I wasn't allowed one because my mother had lost one child due to illness and was a bit over-protective, I had to learn after I left home).
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