Cycling to school for years, but children no longer happy

[Psamathe]

How often do these close passes happen? A one-off is bad enough but is it a regular occurrence?

Regularly, and seemingly more and more often. Some days we cycle to and from school without any incidents, but most days we have at least one unnerving pass. My wife also cycles to the same school (she's a teacher there in Year 6) quite often and she is also starting to think that close passes are getting worse for her too.

I don't have children so can't make any suggestions on possible ways forward.

However, it would seem a very sorry state of affairs when inconsiderate drivers are getting so common and so inconsiderate they are scaring children off cycling. To me that would suggest the problem has gone beyond needing addressing. Have you thought about discussing the problem with your local Police (no as in "I want to report ... I demand ..." but more that as an organisation concerned about community policing it is something they could easily take action on. My local force has a couple of Police assigned as a "Community Team" or something (I don't think anybody has ever seen them, but they are listed in that role for my village). I have also come across PCSOs on bikes (so there are Police officers around who could ride in with you). Maybe suggest a police cyclist (in plain cloths) rides in with you for a few days (which might encourage your children ?) and if they can accept there is an issue, maybe ride in a few more days with a uniformed officer round the corner stopping inconsiderate drivers and giving them a strict talking to. I would suspect word will get around.

It would be interesting to see how a Police force reacts to such a proposal as it would be very different from "here is a video and you can prosecute the driver ...". I would hope that as it is a community issue, as it is a school route and young children are being impacted, as there would be no expensive time consuming court appearances, etc. then there might be a higher chance of them acting.

Maybe discuss with you Parish Council or some other community groups to get their support. Maybe even discuss with the school and see if they would support you - it all puts a bit more pressure on the Police to do something.

And, although I have no appreciation as to how children's minds work, often with adults, that something is being done can help alleviate concerns.

Ian

[Vorpal]

I do know what you mean though. Once kids get to a certain age, they get to know that their parents can't protect them against everything and, throw in a few dangerous situations and this is cemented into their minds.

That's my concern - this will cement in their minds that cycling is indeed dangerous and that will affect their attitudes to it for the rest of their lives with the consequent health risks. Yes there may be tears at bedtime but as with other things that can elicit tears - going to the dentist or school, going to bed, having to tidy their room - its not about letting them have their own way through the use of tears but doing what is right for them in the long term. Its difficult as a parent to not give in but sometimes you shouldn't. And wait till they become teenagers and really start to test their boundaries! We have enough people out there convinced that cycling is a death wish not to need to add to them from the next generation.

On the other hand, forcing them to do something really scary, and having repeated close passes that just prove that it *is* scary might traumatise them and put them off it for years, or even for life.

[TonyR]

On the other hand, forcing them to do something really scary, and having repeated close passes that just prove that it *is* scary might traumatise them and put them off it for years, or even for life.

Being a kid is all about doing scary things and finding out it wasn't so scary after all. Off course if you ramp up their expectations of scariness they will become convinced it really is dangerous. These days we have a tendency to try and wrap them up in cotton wool and protect them but all we are doing is producing a generation that, when they do ultimately fly the nest and have to face the world on their own, have no appreciation of risk and dealing with it.

Which is why I said to make it into a game with air-zounds and water pistols. It will have a very rapid effect on the guilty drivers, be fun for the kids and teach them that they can manage risks and its more effective than avoiding risks. Not that there really is any significant risk involved (the graphs shown earlier are all within normal statistical fluctuations and without a measure of numbers cycling as well tells you nothing about the real risk. Even in London, the ten deaths a year should be set against a background of well over 200 million bicycle journeys a year)


My kids and my sisters kids, mainly girls, have all backpacked around the world - South America, China, Mongolia, FSU as well as the more familiar destinations and they have all come out of it not only absolutely fine but also much stronger, more confident, independent people with street smarts than their friends - and they feel it and appreciate it too

[pwa]

As walking is a practical option, with lots to be said in its favour, I would choose that if the kids are getting stressed by the cycling. The kids are the priority, not the cycling. I would keep the cycling for journeys that are less prone to conflict, at least for a while. And walking is an excellent habit for a child to have.

[Vorpal]

On the other hand, forcing them to do something really scary, and having repeated close passes that just prove that it *is* scary might traumatise them and put them off it for years, or even for life.

Being a kid is all about doing scary things and finding out it wasn't so scary after all. Off course if you ramp up their expectations of scariness they will become convinced it really is dangerous. These days we have a tendency to try and wrap them up in cotton wool and protect them but all we are doing is producing a generation that, when they do ultimately fly the nest and have to face the world on their own, have no appreciation of risk and dealing with it.

Which is why I said to make it into a game with air-zounds and water pistols. It will have a very rapid effect on the guilty drivers, be fun for the kids and teach them that they can manage risks and its more effective than avoiding risks. Not that there really is any significant risk involved (the graphs shown earlier are all within normal statistical fluctuations and without a measure of numbers cycling as well tells you nothing about the real risk. Even in London, the ten deaths a year should be set against a background of well over 200 million bicycle journeys a year)


My kids and my sisters kids, mainly girls, have all backpacked around the world - South America, China, Mongolia, FSU as well as the more familiar destinations and they have all come out of it not only absolutely fine but also much stronger, more confident, independent people with street smarts than their friends - and they feel it and appreciate it too

Mini V is 8 and rides her bike unsupervised within a defined area. She also rides longer distances with me, walks up to a mile away on her own to and from friends houses, walks to and from school, and is allowed to take the bus home by herself from her music lessons. She is hardly wrapped in cotton wool. But I'm not sure I would persist in the situation admin describes. Yes, of course it's worth trying other things, such as making a game of it, or letting them ride their own bikes, but it's not worth making them hate the journey or getting stressed out over it. And it's difficult for a parent to deal with that kind of stress, even their fears are about something that, like cycling, is realtively safe.

[The fat commuter]

Which is why I said to make it into a game with air-zounds and water pistols. It will have a very rapid effect on the guilty drivers, be fun for the kids and teach them that they can manage risks and its more effective than avoiding risks.

I think that this may encourage conflict. Drivers may take it as being a game too - and try closer passes. Or may stop and have a go.

I think that there are a few choices:

* Carry on as now - maybe with signs.
* Walk
* Drive
* Separate bikes with you behind and taking a more primary position.


Unfortunately, drivers will do close passes. Not all of them - in fact, very few. However, drivers are inconsiderate for a variety of reasons. Some just don't realise the effect of their actions. Some hate cyclists. Some think that the piece of road that they are on and the few feet in front is theirs and how dare anyone encroach on this space. I see all of these types of drivers every day.

I don't know if it's good news or bad news but the ones that begrudge anyone else being on the road don't just do this to cyclists. They'll do it to other road users too. I have seen old grannies and women with school kids in their car speed up on roundabouts just so that they can beep someone who has just entered the roundabout. Had they lifted off a bit, everyone would be happier. Traffic would flow quicker. They'd be less stress.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there.

[TonyR]

Unfortunately, drivers will do close passes. Not all of them - in fact, very few. However, drivers are inconsiderate for a variety of reasons. Some just don't realise the effect of their actions. Some hate cyclists. Some think that the piece of road that they are on and the few feet in front is theirs and how dare anyone encroach on this space. I see all of these types of drivers every day.

Yet despite all the inconsiderate ones, actual collisions are very rare. Its much more a perception and control thing AFAICS. We will quite happily skim through a small gap or pass at close distance if we are on a bike and they are in a stationary or slow moving car. Reverse it and we get upset. I suspect most car drivers are like us - without thinking about it that close pass seems quite OK. Perceived from the other party though its a threat to their life or their wing mirrors and doors.

[[XAP]Bob]

The comparison between threat to life and threat to paintwork shouldn't even appear.

There is simply no comparison.

[Postboxer]

But I think some drivers see cyclists passing parked or queuing cars closely and assume the same gap is ok the other way round. If the children have the control of the horn, then any driver who stopped to argue would hopefully back down once it was pointed out that the children beeped because they were frightened for their safety. Or they might just blame you for being on the road in the first place.

Maybe encourage the school to do more to promote cycling to school, even maybe having cycling events in the sports day. I can't talk though, my kids school doesn't have anywhere for kids to leave bikes, so this prevents them cycling to school, so I should get around to complaining about it.

[mark a.]

Perhaps a GoPro?

- You get to film the ride for interest (and for evidence if you get another punishment pass)
- GoPros are boxy and obvious when stuck to the top of a helmet, so hopefully drivers will know they're being filmed.

It's expensive, though, so might not be worth doing unless you fancy using it beyond the commute. Also, there might be legal issues if you're still filming when you get to the school gates.

[Stradageek]

My experience suggests that the PCSO on a bike idea is well worth trying. Whenever we have had problems at our Youth Club the local PCSOs have been excellent. They realise that they're presence is often enough to sort out an issue, they rarely have to do anything or say anything to anyone and they are very popular with the kids in general.

Try asking for a PCSO bike escort for the school run every day for a week - your kids would love it and (if experience at the Youth Club is anything to go by) the rest of the kids at school will mob the PCSO when he arrives gaining even greater publicity for your cause.

Track down your local PCSO, play the child victim card and the publicity card and I think/very much hope you'll get a result.

[geocycle]

As walking is a practical option, with lots to be said in its favour, I would choose that if the kids are getting stressed by the cycling. The kids are the priority, not the cycling. I would keep the cycling for journeys that are less prone to conflict, at least for a while. And walking is an excellent habit for a child to have.

I agree. This will also get them used to walking independently which they will want to do at some point soon. You might find they then come back to cycling when older and more confident.

[Psamathe]

...
Track down your local PCSO, play the child victim card and the publicity card and I think/very much hope you'll get a result.

The publicity aspect might be an added bonus. If e.g. local papers, parish magazines, etc. report a story about drivers terrorising young children cycling and how the Police are now involved with maybe a comment from the Police along the lines of "we will be continuing to monitor and making regular checks on drivers ..." it might help quite a lot (and maybe on more routes than your own as well). I would assume most of those close passes are not intended as "punishment" but are just bad driving, lack of consideration, etc. And the risk of a Police Officer being round the next corner or even just having been made aware as to what they are doing might help improve things.

Ian

[Elizabeth_S]

As walking is a practical option, with lots to be said in its favour, I would choose that if the kids are getting stressed by the cycling. The kids are the priority, not the cycling. I would keep the cycling for journeys that are less prone to conflict, at least for a while. And walking is an excellent habit for a child to have.

I agree. This will also get them used to walking independently which they will want to do at some point soon. You might find they then come back to cycling when older and more confident.

I would agree with this also. While there are many things that can be done, they will take time to give results, if any, so either walking or cycling on the pavement would be better so the kids don't get stressed. Have you got a 20 mph zone outside your school, or is this just Scotland?

[Flinders]

I'd also agree that it might be an idea to contact the police about it.

If I simply gave up without even reporting the problem and then (the gods forbid) a child/parent was injured, or worse, I'd feel bad I hadn't at least tried to do something.

Also, local papers are often short of copy and desperate for 'parent slams XXX' articles complete with pic of disconsolate kid and bike, they might be worth a go, especially if the kids might find it fun to be in the paper.....