Please ignore!

[Raph]

[[XAP]Bob]

5 vehicles in a row crossing white lines, and yet not crossing them far enough to be useful...

[Audax67]

At least they went round you rather than over the top.

[Raph]

Sorry, I didn't mean to start a new thread on an old subject. I only put the vids on here cos the police guy I sent them to couldn't open them yet they seem to play fine in a browser but I didn't want him to have to go through the whole existing discussion to get to the vids.

At first I did wonder if maybe it's only us tree huggers that thought it was bad so I asked the cop in question whether I was wasting police time and he responded to the effect that no not at all. I don't mind any of the cars that are passing with 1/2 a car width to spare, it's the big bugger with no crumple zone that leaves about 6 inches to spare that gave me the heebiejeebies.

I spoke to the owner of the company, she responded with profuse apologies and said she's taking action, though I don't know what that might be. Probably just a word in the guy's ear, but TBH as long as he knows it's logged with the cops and been seen on the net he might be more careful from now on.

[reohn2]

Both of you were riding in the gutter
Forgive me for this but it's an invite for drivers(read numpties) to squeeezze past.
On that road I'd be at least 1m further out in the lane.

[Tangled Metal]

I'm a bad one for riding closer to the kerb than perhaps is in my interest but even I would be further out than the guys in the vids. Perhaps Reohn is right with the view that we are our own enemies at times by making it very easy to sneak past in those sorts of roads. It might be better to stick out a bit more so if there is a close pass that gives you the heebeegeebies then you have some space to move.

Back when I used to ride close in some apologetic road position I used to get a lot of that on my one iffy stretch of commute into work (back is a lot wider side so not an issue). Now I ride a bit further out (unless I am half asleep and forget) I do not get people passing like that. It is amazing considering it is only a small distance between my old position and the newer one but it keeps cars back until there is nothing coming the other way. The few times it hasn;t worked I've just ridden into the space I left myself, keopt calm and carried on. Moving out asap afterwards.

[Phil Fouracre]

Um! Close! Got to agree with others, ride much further out. Having said that I was out on our local A road, bowling along in the sun, well out, no overtake problems and thinking all was right with the world. Suddenly white van alongside, screaming 'move over', I know I shouldnt, but, usual rejoiner to this - single finger salute and 'go xxxx yourself' brake lights came on! Thinks here we go, should have brought a crow bar with me, then they change their mind and roar off, ah well didn't let it spoil an otherwise very pleasant ride.

[Psamathe]

... I only put the vids on here cos the police guy I sent them to couldn't open them yet they seem to play fine in a browser but I didn't want him to have to go through the whole existing discussion to get to the vids. ...

I could not view then from your links in my browser. I suspect it's either my browser and/or security settings (my laptop has quite a few blockers and security add-ons). In the past I've found Firefox more "lenient" than Safari (on Mac), but I rarely use Firefox. I didn't experiment with your videos.

Ian

[Raph]

Times when I've ridden further out from the kerb on a similar road, I've been skimmed far more frequently, exactly like in Phil's example of which I've had a couple of identical near-incidents aggravated by road rage. They were part of the reason I first got a helmet camera and became a bit choosier about when I hog the road and when I don't. Obviously hugging the kerb is no solution to anything but I don't think I'm in the "gutter"; from the wear on the road surface I can see I'm in the average LH "tyre track".

Blocking the road works when there's a pinch point e.g. traffic island or bollards and they actually can't get past, otherwise I don't think it improves matters, it's just an escalation of hostilities, plus they think they're more justified skimming you as you're "hogging the road"! This is a mile or so of fast road, good visibility, about half of it is solid double white lines. I can't see myself forcing traffic to do up to a mile at my somewhat unimpressive 15-20mph, that would cause a hell of a lot more aggravation in the long run and I'd be more likely to get shunted up le derriere.

Having said that, I do think I'll get in the habit of riding a bit further out, not to stop people getting past, but to give myself more wobble room to my left.

Also - bear in mind the guy had lots of room to spare on his RH side, assuming he has enough common sense to think that crossing a white line is less bad than crushing another human being to death (or maybe that's not how his brain works?!?). If you pause the vid just before the truck comes into shot - the oncoming cars squeeze over to let the guy pull out a bit, which he doesn't do - they probably also had a moment of astonishing!!! I don't think there's a position on the road that I could have taken that would have prevented it, unless you really mean taking centre position and slowing a tailback of cars down to cycling speed along a mile-long stretch of road, in which case yes ok I take your point but I've never seen anyone do that on that kind of road and I don't think I'll try.

Perhaps the wide angle exaggerates the closeness to the kerb, in which case it also exaggerates the closeness of the passing truck, though it was pretty close! The cop that I showed it to didn't mention anything about my riding position on the road.

[Raph]

... I only put the vids on here cos the police guy I sent them to couldn't open them yet they seem to play fine in a browser but I didn't want him to have to go through the whole existing discussion to get to the vids. ...

I could not view then from your links in my browser. I suspect it's either my browser and/or security settings (my laptop has quite a few blockers and security add-ons). In the past I've found Firefox more "lenient" than Safari (on Mac), but I rarely use Firefox. I didn't experiment with your videos.

Ian

Thanks for that - I didn't get round to mentioning that the guy couldn't get them to play from the browser either! He downloaded them, then they played. You're not missing much, I don't think it'll be the next blockbuster!

[reohn2]

Um! Close! Got to agree with others, ride much further out. Having said that I was out on our local A road, bowling along in the sun, well out, no overtake problems and thinking all was right with the world. Suddenly white van alongside, screaming 'move over', I know I shouldnt, but, usual rejoiner to this - single finger salute and 'go xxxx yourself' brake lights came on! Thinks here we go, should have brought a crow bar with me, then they change their mind and roar off, ah well didn't let it spoil an otherwise very pleasant ride.

There's a simple answer to that a shake of the head and telling them ''you move over you've plenty room''and if they haven't they shouldn't be overtaking in the first place!
To ride closer to the gutter lessens my safety margin to my left,should I need to move over in an emergency.
Without that safety margin I'd be brought off by the curb should I need to move to the left,because I'm absolutely sure the closer I move left,the closer overtaking vehicles will move to their left too.
If anyone's in any doubt about such riding technique,check out the motor overtaking cyclist photo in the HC and also read Cyclecraft by John Franklin.
To ride in the gutter out of the traffic stream is to risk being mistaken for a pedestrian on the peripheral vision of drivers who only concentrate on the road in front with tunnel vision.
One things for sure if I ride in the left side vehicle wheel track(between 0.8 & 1m from the curb) and where necessary in the centre of the lane blocking potential risky o/takes,I'll get noticed!
Riding further out also gets me out of the debris margin so less punctures as a result .

Cyclists who are told to 'move over' by o/taking motorists are being subjected to attempted bullying pure and simple

[Bicycler]

Hi Raph, note that there is a difference between riding a bit further out and 'hogging the road'. As you note there was lots of room for careful overtakes. Riding a bit further out ensures that the river has to consciously think about overtaking rather than not deviating or making the smallest deviation possible. Drivers tend to give more space where they comprehend that they are performing an overtake rather than just driving past an obstacle.

[reohn2]

Raph
I've watched the videos a few times,you're both way too close to the curb for safety's sake,further out blocks the close o/takes with oncoming traffic,if there's no oncoming they have the whole road to overtake in.
If you find you're causing a tailback then pull over until it clears,then continue.
Holding up traffic on a road like that costs them about 90seconds,if held up for the full mile,for half that it's 45 secs.If you stop to let traffic clear it may cost you a couple of minutes which would be no problem for me.
Make no mistake,motorists don't like being held up by cyclists,tough,they'll have to get used.
I'm very willing to help them out as best I can,but I'm not sacrificing my safety for their convenience.

[Psamathe]

I've not seen the video so cannot comment on the OP's "distance from kerb". However, I avoid getting anywhere near the kerb if only because the chances of suddenly finding a pothole there are high. And if there is traffic around you might not be able to swerve out to avoid the pothole (or even worse your instinctive reaction might be to quickly swerve out only to find a car starting to squeeze ...).

There are so many potholes on the edges or the roads round me is is horrendous. And the repairs are atrocious and need to be avoided. And many of the potholes or repairs are bad enough to have you off the bike.

Ian

[reohn2]

I've not seen the video so cannot comment on the OP's "distance from kerb". However, I avoid getting anywhere near the kerb if only because the chances of suddenly finding a pothole there are high. And if there is traffic around you might not be able to swerve out to avoid the pothole (or even worse your instinctive reaction might be to quickly swerve out only to find a car starting to squeeze ...).

There are so many potholes on the edges or the roads round me is is horrendous. And the repairs are atrocious and need to be avoided. And many of the potholes or repairs are bad enough to have you off the bike.

Ian

+1
I forgot to mention potholes and sunken gulleys,sunken gulleys and the chamfers leading into them can be as wide a 0.6m from curb to outer edge though more often than not are about 0.4m.
It makes 0.8m look tight for safety's sake and 1m a better prospect on such roads.

Motorists of course don't understand any of this unless they ride themselves.

Thankfully the vast majority do understand that driving too close to a two wheeled slow moving vehicle with a high speed differential is dangerous and so don't do it,however much they don't understand why cyclist ride so far out.
The small but significant minority are stupid or dangerous or both,but stand more of a chance of seeing such cyclists,cyclists who ride wide,therefore stand more of a chance to move left without issue when one of these idiots comes too close.
It's worth remembering that even idiots don't want to hit anything even if it's only so they don't scratch or ding the precious motor or if the vehicle they're driving isn't theirs they don't want the flack from their superiors.
It's a good bet such cycling technique annoys some of the more stupid and impatient motorist,frankly I couldn't care less so long as I'm safe,if they get worked up about it,its their problem not mine.