kwackers wrote:Personally I think you open more wormy cans
Yes and despite the pedantry, it's quite an important topic (I think we've well and truly hijacked this thread BTW ).
I have a friend who loves motorcycling - he regularly takes on the rough roads in Morocco. I can relate to all that, just as I occasionally fly, use trains and, yes, travel by car. But as a society we need to make distinctions (sometimes unfairly and arbitrarily). For example:
I don't think motorcycles should be allowed in bus lanes (mind you, I don't think buses should be either). I don't think jet skis should be allowed on quiet stretches of coastline. I think historic vehicles should be allowed where other cars might be banned.
To answer the OP's question and thinking of my friend in Morocco, I think motorcycling is an incredibly attractive activity. It's just that it belongs IMV in a different box from cycling.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
To give my opinion on whether motorbikes are more like cars or bicycles; neither. They have similarities with each and their own unique characteristics.
The attraction and the practicality will, obviously, depend on the person and how they use it.
As for assisted pedal cycles - well, back in the past (till the early 80s?) mopeds had pedals with which they could, at least in theory, be powered, and often that was how you started the motor. Nowadays that's completely gone and a moped is just a small, low-powered, usually speed-restricted (used to be 30+/5mph in UK, now I think it's 45km/h EU) motorcycle. It would, as has already been said, be possible to line up historic vehicles and show a clear progression from early 20th century bicycle-with-engine to modern motorbike, and a moped would be a sort of off-shoot of this. So philosophically or intellectually, I agree with the view that power-assisted pedal cycles are fundamentally not pedal cycles, regardless of how that assistance is provided. However, in practice they have - at the moment - more in common with bicycles than with motor vehicles, as far as I can tell from observation, not having ridden one.
But having that power on tap clearly enables them to do things a normal bike with a normal rider wouldn't. For instance, there's a father of a child at my son's school who takes his kid to school on an electric-assisted bike. He rides up a short section of hill which is about 1:6 then does a U-turn onto the pavement and up an equally steep but narrow path to the main pavement which is some six or so feet above road level. He comes to an almost complete stop, turns, then powers up the next slope. All this with a child of about 8 on the back. No way most people would be able to do that on a non-assisted bike (and he doesn't look particularly sporty). I therefore do wonder about the effect they will have on what we so fondly know as Silly Sustrans Gates (other providers of cycle path obstacles are available!). The extra power gives more control at low speed, negating those obstacles, as well as enabling higher speeds and hill climbing. With the UK climate so much in favour of these obstacles (to prevent danger from speeding lycra louts or keep motorbikes off paths, variously) I fear the growth of electric bikes - they are quite popular here (Bristol) - will see a corresponding growth in number and severity of such obstacles.
(Haven't ridden a motorbike for 20 years but used to do 50,000 miles a year as a courier.)
People I know who have poweerful motorbikes like the different experience, the quicker, less expensive alternative to the car, and from the more dynamic experience.
Cyril Haearn wrote:For what questions is this statement good? I ask a question because I do not understand and want to learn.
Probably for any question that involves subjective experience when the only sensible answer is to tell you to experience it yourself after which you won't need to ask...
Cyril Haearn wrote:For what questions is this statement good? I ask a question because I do not understand and want to learn.
Probably for any question that involves subjective experience when the only sensible answer is to tell you to experience it yourself after which you won't need to ask...
Thanks put much better than I could. I suppose a good example is horse riding I cant see the point and have tried it, but I am sure mere words cant describe what it means to someone who cares. How difficult would it be to describe why you love riding your bike to someone who has never gotten out of their car?
kwackers wrote:Probably for any question that involves subjective experience when the only sensible answer is to tell you to experience it yourself after which you won't need to ask...
Thanks put much better than I could. I suppose a good example is horse riding I cant see the point and have tried it, but I am sure mere words cant describe what it means to someone who cares. How difficult would it be to describe why you love riding your bike to someone who has never gotten out of their car?
Not very. I think many good examples may be found on this board already, when racing-style riders and Slow Bicycle Movement-style riders try to explain why they like it and seriously don't understand why anyone finds the other style fun
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
If you have never ridden a motorbike then I can well understand why such things would puzzle or even scare you. There is something about a motorcycle that bonds both rider and machine. Someone once said it was rather like a cowboy and his horse. The bike becomes an extension of your body. The smallest movement of the rider can affect how the motorcycle behaves. It is a very intimate experience. Speed is not the main point of a motorbike it's the lifestyle and the fact that not everyone likes the same things.
I have read people complaining about large numbers of motorcyclists causing congestion and being intimidating but they fail to mention the constant huge numbers of cars that cause congestion and kill thousands of people every year.
Cars are for people who cannot manage without training wheels.
Making no apologies for ignoring most of this thread because it's too long -
I loved my years on a motorbike, totally different circumstances to cycling different conversations, different scenes. Similar camaraderie and definitely more contact with the opposite sex .
I prefer riding my cycle now, it keeps me fit and I enjoy the countryside passing more slowly.
I believe more women participate now than back in my early monistic cycling club - things change.
PaulB wrote:If you have never ridden a motorbike then I can well understand why such things would puzzle or even scare you. There is something about a motorcycle that bonds both rider and machine. Someone once said it was rather like a cowboy and his horse. The bike becomes an extension of your body. The smallest movement of the rider can affect how the motorcycle behaves. It is a very intimate experience. Speed is not the main point of a motorbike it's the lifestyle and the fact that not everyone likes the same things.
I have read people complaining about large numbers of motorcyclists causing congestion and being intimidating but they fail to mention the constant huge numbers of cars that cause congestion and kill thousands of people every year.
Cars are for people who cannot manage without training wheels.
There was a book written about the experience called Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. Bit of a difficult read but I could see what the author was getting at.
This weekend ... Saturday morning .. Out on the motorbike .. Cafe stop .... bliss. Sunday morning .. Out on the Jamis, Cycling .. Cafe stop .... bliss.
How difficult can it be ....
“Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles every knot.”
Be more Mike.
The road goes on forever.
PaulB wrote:If you have never ridden a motorbike then I can well understand why such things would puzzle or even scare you. There is something about a motorcycle that bonds both rider and machine. Someone once said it was rather like a cowboy and his horse. The bike becomes an extension of your body. The smallest movement of the rider can affect how the motorcycle behaves. It is a very intimate experience. Speed is not the main point of a motorbike it's the lifestyle and the fact that not everyone likes the same things.
I have read people complaining about large numbers of motorcyclists causing congestion and being intimidating but they fail to mention the constant huge numbers of cars that cause congestion and kill thousands of people every year.
Cars are for people who cannot manage without training wheels.
There was a book written about the experience called Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. Bit of a difficult read but I could see what the author was getting at.
I'd say that was not so much about motorcycling as using motorcycling as a medium with which to explore philosophical ideas (such as Zen).