Cleats and Crashes

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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661-Pete
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by 661-Pete »

Oh dear oh dear the Great Clipless Debate rears its ugly head again!

For the record, I've never used cleats and clip-in pedals (why on earth are they called 'clipless'?) myself, and I don't intend to. I've no intention of dissing the users of this technology, but at the same time I don't expect them to diss me and my preferred option of toe clips and straps.

So can we drop the bar on all this talk of toe-clips being 'dangerous' please? I have been happily using toe-clips these past 45 years and more, and never, repeat never, have I had an 'off' due to being unable to release my foot. I don't ride with tight straps and it is as easy to get my foot off the pedal as if I were riding flat pedals with no clips. But the toe clips have the great advantage of keeping my feet in the right position on the pedals - that's why I use them.

And of course I can cycle short distances in any shoes I like. For longer rides I do wear stiff cycling shoes with flat soles but not cleats. A long long time ago, before clip-ins were invented, I used shoe-plates - but even those I had no trouble releasing.

I'm sure those who are used to the cleat/clip-in combinaton, go great guns on them, and none of you have ever had a 'clipless moment'. Or have you? I have witnessed a few.... Of course once you're used to the things it'll never happen to you. And especially, never in heavy traffic....? At least, I hope not.
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Mike Sales
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by Mike Sales »

661-Pete wrote:(why on earth are they called 'clipless'?)

my preferred option of toe clips and straps.



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661-Pete
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by 661-Pete »

Mike Sales wrote:Haven't you answered your own question?

It was a rhetorical question. :D
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Macc Lad
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by Macc Lad »

I took up cycling again only last summer and was encouraged by friends to fit SPDs and cleats. Got on pretty well with them but had two or three incidents, mostly when stationary and poised on one leg, but forgetting the other was still clipped in, and toppling over.

Also had to perform a crash landing when I was riding up a steep-ish hill and ran out of steam, picked a soft bank to cushion the fall. Quiet road, quiet Sunday afternoon. so no harm done.

However, must admit I do have concerns about something like this happening again -- any advice, please, on what to do if you suffer a drastic loss of momentum on a hill and can't unclip in time?
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horizon
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by horizon »

Macc Lad wrote:
However, must admit I do have concerns about something like this happening again -- any advice, please, on what to do if you suffer a drastic loss of momentum on a hill and can't unclip in time?


As I said above it takes time...

There are several steep hills around here (Cornwall), many requiring uphill stops at road junctions and one outside my house. I practised by unclipping regularly (several times) on the hills half way up, then clipping in again. That reassurance really helped. At first I was taking my foot out on the steeper ones right at the start of the hill, but slowly it's got later and later. You get used to the position and force required (it's more it seems when you're pushing the pedal hard) so more confident that you'll do it when needed.

Keep clippping in and out in all sorts of situations and gradients until you feel that you can always do it anywhere anytime.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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Audax67
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by Audax67 »

Getting on & clipping in again on steep hills can be difficult. I originally had single-sided SPDs, and after falling over a couple of times trying to clip in again on a 10% I switched to the MTB variety. Much easier.

With the old toe-clip & strap system, racing roadies used to nail cleats across the sole of the shoe. These fitted into the pedal, the strap snugged the whole thing into one rigid assembly and the foot couldn't pivot. Releasing them in an emergency was direly complicated, and in a crash the bike remained firmly attached, twisting joints and breaking legs. When I rode with toeclips I used smooth soles and didn't dare snug down the straps.

Clipless pedals allow the foot to rotate a certain amount on the pedal so the knees are less strained, and come undone in a crash. I have seen them referred to as safety pedals for that reason.

They're called clipless because there's no toe-clip.
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Tacascarow
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by Tacascarow »

foxyrider wrote:Unfortunately i've had experience of coming off the bike with both step in pedals and toe clips. As others have mentioned with step in pedals i've never consciously taken my foot out in such circumstances but have been released safely whilst in flight - unlike with tc's where i was once dragged a considerable distance along an icy road resulting in nasty friction burns all down my side.

Step in pedals - possibly the biggest advance in safety since the invention of the wheel! :lol:

I very much doubt that a bike weighing around 10kg is likely to drag a human weighing 60 or 70kg very far at all, regardless of what foot attachment device he/she uses.
Physics doesn't work that way. :wink:
rmurphy195
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by rmurphy195 »

"Send Thre-And-Fourpence"!

It's amazing how threads go sometimes, completely changing tack - which was originally about what happens when you are in a collision with cleats - the key phrase from my OP being

"Until the other day when I was involved in a collision – my bike ended up under the front of a pickup truck and I ended up several feet away. Complete with my feet which had simply flown out of the pedals instead of being stuck in them – the result of the incident may have been quite different if they had.

Food for thought?"
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
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horizon
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by horizon »

rmurphy195 wrote:"Send Thre-And-Fourpence"!

Food for thought?"[/i]


Yes, loads, hence all the slightly off-topic replies, including my own. I think you need to be a bit more precise in your posting. You might not have got as many replies, just the ones you did get anyway about collisions.

Hopefully you're OK (not from the collision, but from this thread). :)

The potted history of your life probably stirred some memories for people who only felt it fair that they also had a chance to talk about toe-clips, growing up, youth, reaching forty, bike shop tales and such like. :wink:

Anyway, back to crashes ...
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Tonyf33
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by Tonyf33 »

rmurphy195 wrote:"Send Thre-And-Fourpence"!

It's amazing how threads go sometimes, completely changing tack - which was originally about what happens when you are in a collision with cleats - the key phrase from my OP being

"Until the other day when I was involved in a collision – my bike ended up under the front of a pickup truck and I ended up several feet away. Complete with my feet which had simply flown out of the pedals instead of being stuck in them – the result of the incident may have been quite different if they had.

Food for thought?"

You can now put yourself in the "XXX saved my life" brigade :wink: :lol:
Seriously though, if you had being still attached to the bike it does make you wonder what the outcome might have being.
Personally I only ever use clips and straps on an older bike when I'm pootling with the missus and it's really just for show, I've ridden in daily traffic back in ye olden days 8) with clips and straps and making the change to SPD pedals made things far and away easier and IMO safer all round. Had a few moments when first started, still have the odd one now and again when you're caught in two minds or have to do an emergency stop but having being struck by vehicles a few times I'm glad I had an SPD set up.
rmurphy195
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by rmurphy195 »

horizon wrote: I think you need to be a bit more precise in your posting.

oops :oops:
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !
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horizon
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by horizon »

:wink: :D
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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foxyrider
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by foxyrider »

Tacascarow wrote:
foxyrider wrote:Unfortunately i've had experience of coming off the bike with both step in pedals and toe clips. As others have mentioned with step in pedals i've never consciously taken my foot out in such circumstances but have been released safely whilst in flight - unlike with tc's where i was once dragged a considerable distance along an icy road resulting in nasty friction burns all down my side.

Step in pedals - possibly the biggest advance in safety since the invention of the wheel! :lol:

I very much doubt that a bike weighing around 10kg is likely to drag a human weighing 60 or 70kg very far at all, regardless of what foot attachment device he/she uses.
Physics doesn't work that way. :wink:


Try adding in 20mph, a corner, some downhill and sheet black ice - I can assure you it does work that way! It isn't the bike dragging, its momentum doing its stuff. I never measured the distance exactly but we are talking about 20-25m. :(
Convention? what's that then?
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Flinders
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by Flinders »

I have found the key is to anticipate, even if that means sometimes unclipping well in advance of a junction, or the top of a steep hill if I'm slowing too much. In a crises, I've always been able to get out of them faster than my old toe-clips (even though I never tightened the straps on mine). The only way I'd be freer is by using flat pedals, which I never have had; I learned to ride a bike in my 20s with toeclips right from the start.
I was very resistant to changing from toeclips, and I didn't like clipless pedals when I borrowed a bike/shoes to try them, I felt horribly trapped. But now I have changed over, I find I have got used to them, and wouldn't go back to clips and straps, I feel much more at one with the bike. As a bonus, it has really helped my bad knee, because they help me keep my feet in the right alignment.
RogerThat
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Re: Cleats and Crashes

Post by RogerThat »

Look Keo pedals were a complete revelation for me last year. Not only are the 150 gr lighter than equivalent Shimano SPD SL pedals but I'd say the cleats (especially the Grey ones) are about 50% easier to get in/out of and they don't make that whacking great 'clack ' sound when you snap in or out. It's altogether a much more gentle experience. They're so easy to get out of I've never even come close to an off. Never pulled a foot out by mistake either. I think Look (the original clip less pedal inventor) have completely perfected the experience. I'd never go back to Shimano after a year with Look Keo. All that clacking away at the start of a ride! Arghhhh! :)*
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