Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

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Valbrona
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by Valbrona »

gaz wrote:By a similar logic "I put it to you m'lud that my client cannot be guilty of drink driving, as his car is not fitted with any device for measuring the alcohol content of his body" :wink: .


Spot-on.

It is called self-responsibility.

If you are cycling somewhere it is your job to find if a speed limit does apply and your responsibility to stay below it.
I should coco.
ANTONISH
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by ANTONISH »

[quote="[XAP]Bob"]Dangerous d icing even, but cycling fast isn't significantly dangerous
quote]
IMO a collision between a fast moving cyclist and a pedestrian is very dangerous - surely in a park one has to consider the likelihood of pedestrians appearing on the road.
You may have seen the famous photograph of the finish of the 1958 TDF where an official was on the track and got in the way of Andre Darrigade when Darrigade was going for the sprint. The official subsequently died.
This is one of the reasons why I avoid shared use paths if possible and then ride only slowly if I have to use them - the disparity in speeds is too great.
And I'm very nervous of two way cycle paths.
RogerThat
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by RogerThat »

I'm fine in cycle paths as I rarely exceed 13mph along them. At this speed I can either stop very quickly (with nice disc brakes) or get out if the way. It's fundamentally safer than any road shared with a car!
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by [XAP]Bob »

ANTONISH wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:Dangerous driving even, but cycling fast isn't significantly dangerous

IMO a collision between a fast moving cyclist and a pedestrian is very dangerous - surely in a park one has to consider the likelihood of pedestrians appearing on the road.
You may have seen the famous photograph of the finish of the 1958 TDF where an official was on the track and got in the way of Andre Darrigade when Darrigade was going for the sprint. The official subsequently died.
This is one of the reasons why I avoid shared use paths if possible and then ride only slowly if I have to use them - the disparity in speeds is too great.
And I'm very nervous of two way cycle paths.


I'd assert that a sprint finish on the TdF is rather different to a road through a park. My understanding (which may well be wrong) is that this is on a road through a royal park, so not "in a park" in the normal sense of that phrase.

It's not a shared use path in a park, it's a road - you have to consider the possibility of a pedestrian stepping into (not appearing, because they don't teleport) any road. This is no more likely "in a park" than on any other road.

The situation is different on a shared use path - but AFAICT that isn't the situation in this case.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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hondated
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by hondated »

Valbrona wrote:
gaz wrote:By a similar logic "I put it to you m'lud that my client cannot be guilty of drink driving, as his car is not fitted with any device for measuring the alcohol content of his body" :wink: .


Spot-on.

It is called self-responsibility.

If you are cycling somewhere it is your job to find if a speed limit does apply and your responsibility to stay below it.

No no no I just cannot agree at all. Your example does not affect me in any way as I have been teetotal for many years now but all those years ago when I did drink I basically knew that if I was driving taking my weight into consideration ( a lot thinner then ) I knew a pint of lager and lime ( that's how long ago it was) was my limit but how I could I possibly know how fast I was cycling without having a cycle conputer of some description. As MickF has said what about runners then. Now if you were being stopped for dangerous riding that might be a different matter ! .
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by Tigerbiten »

I don't think it's a fine for speeding.
I think it's a fine for being an idiot ........ :lol:
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gaz
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by gaz »

hondated wrote:... how I could I possibly know how fast I was cycling without having a cycle conputer of some description.

It's not a question of knowing how fast you are cycling, just a question of staying under the limit. Rather like when you have a lager and lime without access to a breathalyser. You don't know what your breath alcohol content is but you are confident that it's under the limit. Where a speed limit applies ride at a speed you are confident is within the limit.

In any case so long as you are pedaling you can calculate your speed. Speed(mph) = Gear(inches) × Cadence (rpm) ÷ 336. Admittedly this is not the easiest thing to do in your head and trying to do the math with pencil and paper whilst riding is also not to be recommended.

If you're freewheeling then you should know the circumference of your front wheel, count the rpm and work it out from there :wink: . I'd imagine this becomes much harder after a lager and lime :wink: .
High on a cocktail of flossy teacakes and marmalade
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hondated
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by hondated »

gaz wrote:
hondated wrote:... how I could I possibly know how fast I was cycling without having a cycle conputer of some description.

It's not a question of knowing how fast you are cycling, just a question of staying under the limit. Rather like when you have a lager and lime without access to a breathalyser. You don't know what your breath alcohol content is but you are confident that it's under the limit. Where a speed limit applies ride at a speed you are confident is within the limit.

In any case so long as you are pedaling you can calculate your speed. Speed(mph) = Gear(inches) × Cadence (rpm) ÷ 336. Admittedly this is not the easiest thing to do in your head and trying to do the math with pencil and paper whilst riding is also not to be recommended.

If you're freewheeling then you should know the circumference of your front wheel, count the rpm and work it out from there :wink: . I'd imagine this becomes much harder after a lager and lime :wink: .

gaz with respect your talking to an ex secondary modern boy here :roll: not one who went to a grammar school.

" conputer " was that a Freudian slip ! :shock:
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by [XAP]Bob »

The point is that you know if you are going well over 20mph (certainly if you are doing 40+). You don't need electronics....
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
pwa
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by pwa »

It has always been possible for cyclists to be prosecuted (like motorists) for riding too fast. It is rare, but it does happen. On normal highways the prosecution would be for *riding furiously", the cycling equivalent of "driving without due care and attention". And I have heard that if caught, you can have points put on your driving licence!. Anyone know if that is correct?
thirdcrank
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by thirdcrank »

I don't think courts have the power to endorse driving licences beyond the schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/schedule/2

Edit to add: Since posting this, I've discovered that "furious driving" (which includes cycling, of course) was added to the above schedule in section 28 of the Road Safety Act, 2006. Why the online version of the schedule in my link above has not yet been updated is not clear to me. Anyway, disqualification is discretionary and endorsement is obligatory 3-9 points, if committed in respect of a mechanically propelled vehicle.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/49/section/28
( I've decided to edit this post to make the info more accessible in future, rather adding a further post below)

Section 146 of the Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000 created a power to disqualify a defendant convicted of any offence, the main restriction being that the court in question had to have been authorised to use the power

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/6/section/146

I've no idea what the present situation is with that.

Cycling furiously has been discussed at some length before.
Last edited by thirdcrank on 17 Mar 2015, 7:13pm, edited 1 time in total.
ANTONISH
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by ANTONISH »

[quote="[XAP]Bob]I'd assert that a sprint finish on the TdF is rather different to a road through a park.

41 mph? I'd assert that the outcome would be remarkably similar.
nathb
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by nathb »

Interestingly:


The speed limits in Royal Parks are also intended for motor vehicles only. According to: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010 ... ion/1/made

Citation, Commencement and Interpretation
1.—(1) These Regulations may be cited as The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces (Amendment) etc. Regulations 2010 and shall come into force for the purposes of regulations 1 to 4 on 6th April 2010 and for all other purposes on 1st October 2010.
(2) In these Regulations–
“parking permit” means a permit issued by or on behalf of the Secretary of State for the parking of a vehicle;
“parking place” means a place shown on a notice exhibited by or on behalf of the Secretary of State as being appointed under these Regulations as a place where a person may park a vehicle; and
“vehicle” means a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on a road. .

So maybe it was purely the act of overtaking vehicles in silly places at speed which landed him in court, and the officers were there to laser cars...
iviehoff
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by iviehoff »

nathb wrote:Interestingly:
The speed limits in Royal Parks are also intended for motor vehicles only. According to: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010 ... ion/1/made

I'm not going to go through the various enactments RP regs and their amendments all over again, but I have been through them before and I can assure you that, in addition to what you have located, there are elsewhere specific regs in relation to cycle speed limits.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Didn't know cyclists could be fined for speeding!

Post by [XAP]Bob »

ANTONISH wrote:
[quote="[XAP]Bob]I'd assert that a sprint finish on the TdF is rather different to a road through a park.

41 mph? I'd assert that the outcome would be remarkably similar.


Yes, the outcome could be similar - but it would be similar if a pedestrian stepped in front of a car as well...

This is a *road* we are looking at, not a park path.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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