Stop!

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
reohn2
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Re: Stop!

Post by reohn2 »

MikeF wrote:I don't like this sign at all. Why is the word cyclists needed?! Why isn't it a sign for all users? Plenty of motor vehicles don't stop at red lights either, :evil: but by implication it is portraying cyclists as bad and drivers as good.


Yes that's my feeling on it too.
It's the only time I've felt like grafitting(real word?)a sign and writing in big black lettering across it
''WHAT ABOUT THE CARS'' as I see far more cars RLJing than I ever see cyclists doing it and they are far more dangerous to other road users! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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mrjemm
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Re: Stop!

Post by mrjemm »

I haven't read the article, but this discussion reminds me of this-

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... of-a-death
pwa
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Re: Stop!

Post by pwa »

MikeF

a motorist jumping a red light is certainly more dangerous (to others) than a cyclist doing the same thing. But motorists already know they should not be doing it, and a sign would not help. Prosecution might.

The reason for singling out cyclists with this particular sign must be that, in terms of numbers, they are the biggest offenders. Stand beside a busy junction in a city and you will see cyclists treating red lights as Give Way signs. More so than motorists. It is as if some cyclists see themselves as informal road users, or pedestrians on wheels. This sign is clearly aimed at them. It would be nice if some free training could be given to them. The odd bit of advice on a sign is inadequate for someone who may not have looked at the Highway Code.

None of this excuses bad road use from other road users, but I do see signs intended to improve their behaviour so I don't mind the occasional sign aimed at the less law abiding cyclists.
Flinders
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Re: Stop!

Post by Flinders »

Interesting, as you say, that it is facing the wrong way...

This weekend in Shropshire we came across a pair of signs, one either side of a main trunk road, one saying 40, the other national. They were brand new, had the orange square backgrounds, and hadn't been twisted round in an accident as they were both on two poles apiece.
Coming back, it was clear that one had been installed the wrong way round, as the same thing happened in reverse.
It isn't a wide road, & you'd have to be as blind as a bat not to realise you'd put one of them up the wrong way round.
:shock:
Flinders
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Re: Stop!

Post by Flinders »

pwa wrote:MikeF

a motorist jumping a red light is certainly more dangerous (to others) than a cyclist doing the same thing. But motorists already know they should not be doing it, and a sign would not help. Prosecution might.

The reason for singling out cyclists with this particular sign must be that, in terms of numbers, they are the biggest offenders. Stand beside a busy junction in a city and you will see cyclists treating red lights as Give Way signs. More so than motorists. It is as if some cyclists see themselves as informal road users, or pedestrians on wheels. This sign is clearly aimed at them. It would be nice if some free training could be given to them. The odd bit of advice on a sign is inadequate for someone who may not have looked at the Highway Code.

None of this excuses bad road use from other road users, but I do see signs intended to improve their behaviour so I don't mind the occasional sign aimed at the less law abiding cyclists.



Depends where you are. Here, it used to be fairly law abiding wrt drivers and red lights. After months of congestion due to badly managed road works, some drivers started to regard lights as advisory. In the rush hour, I reckon at one particular junction at least 3 went through at red at every sequence just from one of the roads into the junction.
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[XAP]Bob
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Stop!

Post by [XAP]Bob »

pwa wrote:MikeF

a motorist jumping a red light is certainly more dangerous (to others) than a cyclist doing the same thing. But motorists already know they should not be doing it, and a sign would not help. Prosecution might.

The reason for singling out cyclists with this particular sign must be that, in terms of numbers, they are the biggest offenders. Stand beside a busy junction in a city and you will see cyclists treating red lights as Give Way signs. More so than motorists. It is as if some cyclists see themselves as informal road users, or pedestrians on wheels. This sign is clearly aimed at them. It would be nice if some free training could be given to them. The odd bit of advice on a sign is inadequate for someone who may not have looked at the Highway Code.

None of this excuses bad road use from other road users, but I do see signs intended to improve their behaviour so I don't mind the occasional sign aimed at the less law abiding cyclists.


I disagree, I see many more motorists than cyclists - and that despite the fact that one law abiding motorist prevents those behind them from jumping the light, whereas a single stopped cyclist is easy to filter around and so subsequent cyclists can continue to jump the light, even if there is stationary traffic ahead of them.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
reohn2
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Re: Stop!

Post by reohn2 »

gaz wrote:Those nice Men at the Ministry have also provided some information with regard to their campaign strategy: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nk-cyclist


The first diagram I see when I click on the link is what appears to be a close overtaking car :?
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Postboxer
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Re: Stop!

Post by Postboxer »

You also need to count the cyclists obeying the lights by slowing down on their approach so they don't arrive at the lights until they're green again. By percentages I would assume a higher percentage of car drivers run red lights, by numbers, I assume it will be many more.
Bicycler
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Re: Stop!

Post by Bicycler »

An important point here is the different manner in which rljing is conducted by motorists and cyclists. From my observations misbehaving motorists' RLJing seems to consist of a lot of amber gambling which continues for a couple of seconds after the lights have changed to red. There is also a lot of encroachment beyond the stop line and ASLs. Misbehaving cyclists by contrast tend to be much more noticeable in their RLJing, effectively ignoring the lights altogether.

I must admit to being a bit uncomfortable when cyclists groups try to draw an equivalence between this behaviour. Whilst, of course, misbehaviour by motorists has the greatest potential for danger and is therefore the more serious, I think that ignoring red lights in the manner some cyclists do is clearly more form of RLJing. I suspect that if motorists started sailing through lights in such a manner we would all agree on that.
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Mick F
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Re: Stop!

Post by Mick F »

pwa wrote: ............ some cyclists see themselves as informal road users, or pedestrians on wheels.
Nicely put.
Pedestrians on wheels.

You see it all the time. The other day at the lights in the village, a chap on a bike came down the hill to the left of the traffic waiting at the red light passing them all and mounted the start of the pavement, then proceeded through the lights and tuned left ......... still on the pavement .............. then off and up the road after the pavement ended.

Had I been a pedestrian (on foot!), I'd have done as he did.
Mick F. Cornwall
Bicycler
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Re: Stop!

Post by Bicycler »

Playing devils advocate, aren't bicycles a different type of vehicle and shouldn't they be considered differently to motor vehicles? Why ought rules designed to control flows of motor traffic apply to cyclists?
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Mick F
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Re: Stop!

Post by Mick F »

I agree with your devil.

If pedestrians wore rollers skates, would they have to stop at a red light?
Mick F. Cornwall
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gaz
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Re: Stop!

Post by gaz »

Once we've got our skates on will we find that we're rapidly heading towards resurrecting an old thread? :wink:
High on a cocktail of flossy teacakes and marmalade
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Mick F
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Re: Stop!

Post by Mick F »

Some of us continually go round in circles.
Mick F. Cornwall
Flinders
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Re: Stop!

Post by Flinders »

Mick F wrote:Some of us continually go round in circles.


I feel that I'm doing that all the time these days. :(
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