Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Edwards
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by Edwards »

My best friend has a saying that the cyclist would do well to use.

"Remember your blood wipes off with a damp cloth".

How can anybody with any sense not see something that big and white. He must have tried hard not to.
Keith Edwards
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reohn2
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by reohn2 »

It can never be right,for the sake of others,to run a red light in a motor unless there are extremely exceptional circumstances.
Likewise it can't be right to do the same on a bike,primarily for one's own self preservation,but also for the sake of a possible chain of events that may cause a seriously negative effect on others.

It seems to me both things happened in this instance,luckily for the idiot cyclist it was only his pride that was effected,for the lunatic HGV driver he heard a slight bumping noise on the side of the truck.

Worst case scenario if the cyclist had gone under the truck it wouldn't have mattered who was right or wrong the effect would have been the same for him ie;serious harm or death.
His life could've ended or been totally changed there and then.

The HGV driver would still have only heard or felt a slight bump.
S/He would've,other than a fine and or ban,a lost job and some bad memories,been totally unharmed by the incident.


Whatever,'I'd rather be a hammer than a nail',as the old song goes,with a little forethought and attention even a nail can dodge a hammer and live life without being hit!
Last edited by reohn2 on 2 Mar 2015, 8:39am, edited 1 time in total.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by [XAP]Bob »

The gap is not particularly large, it's consistent with continuous traffic flow (less than a two second gap all the way).

That doesn't excuse the RLJ by either party, but only one of them projected the danger from their decision onto others.
Last edited by Graham on 2 Mar 2015, 9:29am, edited 1 time in total.
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danhopgood
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by danhopgood »

Three points come to my mind on this situation, other than the lorry driver was being cheeky and where's the enforcement? :

1 Look how many cyclists are in front of the stop line waiting to go ahead. Breach of Legislation & HC 175. Cyclists fail. Where's the enforcement?

2 Look how many cyclists go on red and amber. You can only move ahead of the STOP LINE on a green light. Breach of Legislation & HC 176. Cyclists fail again. Where's the enforcement?

3 I wonder about the psychology of the situation. Looks like "grand prix start" mentality is a factor here. Could be that in the mind of the lorry head butting cyclist is more "I've timed this red light just right - I'm going to sail past these losers"? Could it be that was what distracted him?
Ellieb
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by Ellieb »

I wonder about the psychology of the situation. Looks like "grand prix start" mentality is a factor here.

Judging by the speed with which he accelerates I'd fancy my chances against him in a bunch sprint :D
danhopgood
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by danhopgood »

Hmm, that is almost certainly the case Elliib.

I'm sure you're just making a tongue in cheek "Top Gear'esque comment about references to racing and use of the road, but the point is there - people sometimes treat the roads as a racetrack. We've all read the big "motor racing is dangerous" sign at race tracks. It is - and that's one reason why people are attracted to motor racing. And I'd put cycle racing in the same category. Fine to race where it's controlled and the ones at risk are the ones taking part. Not fine where safety should be a priority - i.e. day in day out on the public highway when innocent people are put at risk - by both cyclists and motorists. Lack of enforcement is again a factor in my view about generally accepted behaviour towards "winning" on the roads.
Vorpal
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by Vorpal »

I doubt it is a 'grand prix start' mentality so much as a desire not to lose momentum.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Tonyf33
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by Tonyf33 »

So it seems okay for the mods to remove my response to being sworn at by a poster who lost their temper yet are not interested in modifying swearing..nice one, that seems fair!


Actual real facts:
1. there was a massive gap of over 20 metres, that's not consistent with being in the same 'convoy' of traffic, in any case that's irrelevant.
2. The lorry was at the stop line when the light phase was already changing for the cyclists, given the width of the junction this would indicate that the lights had already being on red for a good 3-4 seconds and amber for longer.
3. The cyclist whilst beyond the stop line (as were many others) had not gone 'through' the lights or the junction before the lights went green.
4. the cyclist was an idiot for riding into the side of the lorry
5. A vehicle crossing a junction when ordered by the lights to stop IS DANGEROUS, in a large vehicle such as the lorry here it is a death waiting to happen..

Whatever your viewpoint of what happened and clearly some are distorted as to the plain facts there is no excuse whatsoever for the actions of the lorry.
kwackers
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by kwackers »

Tonyf33 wrote:So it seems okay for the mods to remove my response to being sworn at by a poster who lost their temper yet are not interested in modifying swearing..nice one, that seems fair!

I'm not sure 'crap' is a swear word - but then I'm from the north and we're more uncouth and say what we think up here.
Tonyf33 wrote:Actual real facts:
1. there was a massive gap of over 20 metres, that's not consistent with being in the same 'convoy' of traffic, in any case that's irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant though is it? Nor is it 20 meters, the distance between the Boris bike and the lorry is probably less than 10 (the lorry is probably less than 40' and another wouldn't come close to fitting in the gap).
Anyway the length of the gap is irrelevant, at the point the lorry enters the junction there's a taxi bang in the middle and a Boris bike behind that. Not only does he have all the time in the world to realise the lorry isn't going to stop but 3 vehicles are currently traversing the junction including the one he's about to collide with.

Incidentally the speed of the lorry through the lights is approximately 15mph - not 25-30 like your previously deleted rant suggested. He was tailgating a cyclist on a Boris bike through. Don't know about you but 25-30 mph on the flat on a Boris bike!?

Lets actually tell it how it happened. Forget lorries and bicycles.

Two people jump red lights and collide in the middle of a junction. Common sense tells you they're both guilty.
One of those two also ignored the highway code advice that you should only enter a junction when the way is clear. That obviously makes one of the two more liable.
Therefore at best he's more liable than the lorry driver and given the level of idiocy required to miss a truck - well lets just say I'm a fan of Darwinism.
Vorpal
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by Vorpal »

More than one post has already been removed from this thread. If the slanging match continues, the thread will be locked or removed.

As for the word 'crap', it has generally been considered acceptable on this forum. However, please refrain from using it to describe other member's posts and opinions.

Thanks.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Ellieb
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by Ellieb »

2. The lorry was at the stop line when the light phase was already changing for the cyclists, given the width of the junction this would indicate that the lights had already being on red for a good 3-4 seconds and amber for longer.
3. The cyclist whilst beyond the stop line (as were many others) had not gone 'through' the lights or the junction before the lights went green.

Yes, but these aren't really facts are they. You don't know & I don't know how long the lights for the lorry have been red. If it is a good 3-4 seconds then both the taxi & the boris bike have also jumped the lights. You are just making a supposition and there is no evidence for it. Secondly: The cyclist has gone through the lights on red. Not only has he passed over the solid white line (which is what the legal offence technically is) but the light you can see is a repeater. It is the second of two lights with the first one being on the stop line mounted on the lamp post. If you want to be pedantic about it, if he isn't past the repeater while it is still on red & amber then he is inches away from doing so. So as people keep saying: They both jumped the lights.

My take on it is that what the lorry does is, sadly, not unusual and anyone riding in a large urban area will see motor vehicles doing that many times a day. It does not excuse what he does, It is still ilegal, but it is hardly out of the ordinary. What the cyclist does, however, is not what one might expect to see. To completely ignore a large vehicle, which is clearly continuing across the junction in plain view, just isn't 'normal'. It takes two to make an accident, but I know which of the two protagonists behaviour I am most surprised by.
reohn2
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by reohn2 »

danhopgood wrote:Three points come to my mind on this situation, other than the lorry driver was being cheeky and where's the enforcement? :

1 Look how many cyclists are in front of the stop line waiting to go ahead. Breach of Legislation & HC 175. Cyclists fail. Where's the enforcement?

2 Look how many cyclists go on red and amber. You can only move ahead of the STOP LINE on a green light. Breach of Legislation & HC 176. Cyclists fail again. Where's the enforcement?

3 I wonder about the psychology of the situation. Looks like "grand prix start" mentality is a factor here. Could be that in the mind of the lorry head butting cyclist is more "I've timed this red light just right - I'm going to sail past these losers"? Could it be that was what distracted him?


Those are three very good and certainly accurate points.
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Vorpal
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by Vorpal »

Ellieb wrote:
2. The lorry was at the stop line when the light phase was already changing for the cyclists, given the width of the junction this would indicate that the lights had already being on red for a good 3-4 seconds and amber for longer.
3. The cyclist whilst beyond the stop line (as were many others) had not gone 'through' the lights or the junction before the lights went green.

Yes, but these aren't really facts are they. You don't know & I don't know how long the lights for the lorry have been red. If it is a good 3-4 seconds then both the taxi & the boris bike have also jumped the lights. You are just making a supposition and there is no evidence for it. Secondly: The cyclist has gone through the lights on red. Not only has he passed over the solid white line (which is what the legal offence technically is) but the light you can see is a repeater. It is the second of two lights with the first one being on the stop line mounted on the lamp post. If you want to be pedantic about it, if he isn't past the repeater while it is still on red & amber then he is inches away from doing so. So as people keep saying: They both jumped the lights.

My take on it is that what the lorry does is, sadly, not unusual and anyone riding in a large urban area will see motor vehicles doing that many times a day. It does not excuse what he does, It is still ilegal, but it is hardly out of the ordinary. What the cyclist does, however, is not what one might expect to see. To completely ignore a large vehicle, which is clearly continuing across the junction in plain view, just isn't 'normal'. It takes two to make an accident, but I know which of the two protagonists behaviour I am most surprised by.

Actually, because the light changed to green from the cyclist's direction, we can know that the lorry driver had time to stop for the red light. Even if the red changed simultaneously with green, the lorry driver would have had approximately 130 feet (40 metres) of amber at 30 mph. This is within the capability of an attentive driver of even a loaded lorry at 30 mph. We don't know if the vehicles in front of the lorry jumped the light, but I suppose that someone who knows light sequence timings could figure it out.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
kwackers
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by kwackers »

Vorpal wrote:Actually, because the light changed to green from the cyclist's direction, we can know that the lorry driver had time to stop for the red light. Even if the red changed simultaneously with green, the lorry driver would have had approximately 130 feet (40 metres) of amber at 30 mph. This is within the capability of an attentive driver of even a loaded lorry at 30 mph. We don't know if the vehicles in front of the lorry jumped the light, but I suppose that someone who knows light sequence timings could figure it out.

I reckon the cyclist in front jumped the light and the lorry driver figured if they could do it so could he... ;)
Postboxer
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Re: Brakes work, shame brain doesn't

Post by Postboxer »

All the other cyclists at the junction manage to not cycle into a lorry.
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