Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
Just been checking and I see there are two types of road markings for cycle lanes, one sectioned off with a solid white line described as a "mandatory cycle lane" and one with a dotted white line described as a "advisory pedal cycle lane" (in a DoT booklet).
Am I right in assuming that the advisory/mandatory applies to motor vehicles or do they also apply to cyclists (i.e. a cyclist MUST use a "mandatory cycle lane" and may use an "advisory cycle lane"). If cyclists MUST use a "mandatory" cycle lane I would have expected other signs showing that a cyclist must not use the vehicle highway ...
(I hope the question makes sense).
Ian
Am I right in assuming that the advisory/mandatory applies to motor vehicles or do they also apply to cyclists (i.e. a cyclist MUST use a "mandatory cycle lane" and may use an "advisory cycle lane"). If cyclists MUST use a "mandatory" cycle lane I would have expected other signs showing that a cyclist must not use the vehicle highway ...
(I hope the question makes sense).
Ian
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Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
My understanding is a highway can be used by any vehicle except certain classes of roads (a pedestrian can be considered a vehicle I was told if there is a reason for walking in the road - our school used to have a procession along the road, scout marches on remembrance sunday, etc.).
My understanding of in road cycle paths a solid line (usually with a red surface) means cars should not enter the cycle path but there is no reason why a bike can;'t ride outside if there is a reasonable need to do so. Of course most cars ignore red surface and solid lines to ride or park on cycle paths so I reciprocate with a few cyclepaths by riding on the road. One near me is a pointless path to avoid a mini roundabout that is no more or less safe to ride around in traffic than the cyclepath next to it (up the kerb with the need to stop and cross a side road to proceed).
I am only guessing but would assume even if I am wrong the police won't bother enforcing it.
My understanding of in road cycle paths a solid line (usually with a red surface) means cars should not enter the cycle path but there is no reason why a bike can;'t ride outside if there is a reasonable need to do so. Of course most cars ignore red surface and solid lines to ride or park on cycle paths so I reciprocate with a few cyclepaths by riding on the road. One near me is a pointless path to avoid a mini roundabout that is no more or less safe to ride around in traffic than the cyclepath next to it (up the kerb with the need to stop and cross a side road to proceed).
I am only guessing but would assume even if I am wrong the police won't bother enforcing it.
Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
Psamathe wrote:Am I right in assuming that the advisory/mandatory applies to motor vehicles or do they also apply to cyclists (i.e. a cyclist MUST use a "mandatory cycle lane" and may use an "advisory cycle lane"). If cyclists MUST use a "mandatory" cycle lane I would have expected other signs showing that a cyclist must not use the vehicle highway ...
Yes, they are advisory/mandatory for motor vehicles only. It's only in a few non-motorway places (Nene Valley Way A45 Expressway and NCN539), cycles are banned from the carriageway and a cycleway is the only legal route. In the run-up to the 2010 election, banning cycles from carriageways where there are adjacent cycleways was a manifesto point for one four-letter-name party, despite that many of the current ones are substandard bordering on dangerous with that failure often excused by highways officers on the grounds that objectors can always use the carriageway instead.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
mjr wrote:Yes, they are advisory/mandatory for motor vehicles only.
+1
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Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
mjr wrote:Psamathe wrote: It's only in a few non-motorway places (Nene Valley Way A45 Expressway and NCN539), cycles are banned from the carriageway and a cycleway is the only legal route.
I know that cycles are banned in the UK from roads designated as 'motorways'. But do you know if those other roads in the UK which cycles are also banned from have an official designation, like 'Expressway'? Or does the Highways Agency make it up as they go along, like if there's a good quality adjacent cycle route your banned because there is no good reason not to use a busy A road.
I ask this because I ride in Italy quite a bit and they have the Autostrada designation which can apply to lots of other roads apart from their motorways.
I should coco.
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Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
Usually it is just motorways and A roads that have been designated as motorways I think. They are either numbers with an M at the front or A roads with the letter M in brackets after. You usually also start to see blue motorway signs and signs saying non-motorway traffic to filter off. However the motorway junction near us has two stretches of road to get to the junction and both are motorway classed A roads but they cut a bit of a corner so you do see cyclists using them occasionally because their GPS told them perhaps but they do. Usually get a few uses of the horns from passing motorists and I have seen the police stop one once.
I personally think that a large A road is kind of a deterrent to cyclists without this designation. There are several roads I can ride down but will go out of my way to avoid. Although I have noticed in the NE there seems to a fair few big roads with separate cycle paths next to them. That is unusual I think for the UK, certainly not the same in the NW.
I personally think that a large A road is kind of a deterrent to cyclists without this designation. There are several roads I can ride down but will go out of my way to avoid. Although I have noticed in the NE there seems to a fair few big roads with separate cycle paths next to them. That is unusual I think for the UK, certainly not the same in the NW.
Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
Valbrona wrote:... does the Highways Agency make it up as they go along, like if there's a good quality adjacent cycle route your banned because there is no good reason not to use a busy A road ...
It isn't just the Highways Agency. There are some local authority roads that are "no cycling". As for alternative cycle routes, IME the terms "good quality" and "adjacent" are open to considerable interpretation.
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Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
Mandatory is a misleading title. It's not mandatory for cyclists, it's mandatory that motor vehicles stay out of it. Advisory is the same. Stupid names if you ask me, and leads to confusion.
One thing I've never been able to see an answer on, is are cycle lanes directional? Obviously off road ones are not (stupid shared use paths etc) but what about on road ones?
One thing I've never been able to see an answer on, is are cycle lanes directional? Obviously off road ones are not (stupid shared use paths etc) but what about on road ones?
Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
FWIW over here - and in general in Europe - the signs for cyclists are white-bordered blue circles or squares with a white bike in them. The round ones are mandatory and the square ones optional.
The phunny thing is that most of the time an optional cycle path is of excellent quality, whereas a compulsory one is not - most often it's simply a ramp leading onto normal pavement with lumps, humps, bumps, wandering pedestrians, parked cars, dustbins, posts, débris and god knows what else. I've even seen a compulsory cycle lane going straight in under an overhanging bough 4 feet off the ground. A possible reason might be that if they're of excellent quality people will take them of their own accord, but if they're lousy they have to be forced; but the more likely is that towns want bikes out of the carriageway so a couple of ramped kerbstones and a can of paint is the cheapest way to do it and to hell with the cyclists thereafter.
In Germany, if you ignore a mandatory sign and get hit by a car neither the driver's nor your insurance will cover you. I dare say it's the same here, but here, given the probably lousy state of the mandatory lane, you can argue.
The phunny thing is that most of the time an optional cycle path is of excellent quality, whereas a compulsory one is not - most often it's simply a ramp leading onto normal pavement with lumps, humps, bumps, wandering pedestrians, parked cars, dustbins, posts, débris and god knows what else. I've even seen a compulsory cycle lane going straight in under an overhanging bough 4 feet off the ground. A possible reason might be that if they're of excellent quality people will take them of their own accord, but if they're lousy they have to be forced; but the more likely is that towns want bikes out of the carriageway so a couple of ramped kerbstones and a can of paint is the cheapest way to do it and to hell with the cyclists thereafter.
In Germany, if you ignore a mandatory sign and get hit by a car neither the driver's nor your insurance will cover you. I dare say it's the same here, but here, given the probably lousy state of the mandatory lane, you can argue.
Have we got time for another cuppa?
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Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
There's a place to look for summarised rules of the road
My italics.
Highway Code wrote:61
Cycle Routes and Other Facilities. Use cycle routes, advanced stop lines, cycle boxes and toucan crossings unless at the time it is unsafe to do so. Use of these facilities is not compulsory and will depend on your experience and skills, but they can make your journey safer.
My italics.
Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
The summary still relies on some background knowledge. A cycle track running parallel to a motorway is not compulsory but it doesnt give you the right to use the motorway. Now we all know you can not cycle on a motorway (except Commonwealth athletes) but the signs have long since gone.
I am thinking of one bit of motorway where the cycle track starts just AFTER the motorway entrance sign.
So unless you already know that you can or can not cycle on the other bit of the road which isnt the mandatory lane I dont think that counts as an answer.
I am thinking of one bit of motorway where the cycle track starts just AFTER the motorway entrance sign.
So unless you already know that you can or can not cycle on the other bit of the road which isnt the mandatory lane I dont think that counts as an answer.
Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
In my part of Manchester there are some solid white line bounded cycle lanes which are not enforced and cars park on them all the time.
When I asked why this was a councillor told me there was never any intention to enforce them.
Of course, the council did charge me and other council tax payers for the job of painting them even though doing so was utterly pointless.
When I asked why this was a councillor told me there was never any intention to enforce them.
Of course, the council did charge me and other council tax payers for the job of painting them even though doing so was utterly pointless.
Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
Cyclists are banned from special roads (official term for motorways) or rather they aren't banned but they aren't on the list of allowed vehicle types.
Most special roads are motorways but some in rare cases are A roads like the A1 near Edinburgh. In this case the cycling prohibition is explicitly signed.
Most special roads are motorways but some in rare cases are A roads like the A1 near Edinburgh. In this case the cycling prohibition is explicitly signed.
Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
Special roads are interesting because they work on the exact opposite principle to the rest of the road network, types of traffic have to be specifically included in the order whereas elsewhere you may use a road unless you are prohibited by an order. The motorway sign is itself a prohibition sign for non-motorway traffic. All non-motorway special roads should have their prohibitions explicitly signed. Incidentally there is nothing stopping a special road from allowing pedestrians or cyclists. The right to walk and cycle across the Severn Bridge was created in exactly that way.
All very interesting but we're complicating things too much. The simple answer is that you can cycle anywhere there isn't a motorway or prohibition sign telling you that you can't. To answer Valbrona's question, no roads other than motorways carry an automatic prohibition of cycling. The term "Expressway" is used infrequently in the names of roads in the UK but it does not have an official meaning. Some are motorways, others special roads, others all purpose roads
In addition to what everyone else has said about cycle lanes, mandatory ones should be backed up by an order prohibiting motor traffic entering them which should also prohibit parking, they might also prohibit loading though many don't. In the case where somebody has just drawn a solid line without a properly made order to back it up the lane is effectively only advisory.
All very interesting but we're complicating things too much. The simple answer is that you can cycle anywhere there isn't a motorway or prohibition sign telling you that you can't. To answer Valbrona's question, no roads other than motorways carry an automatic prohibition of cycling. The term "Expressway" is used infrequently in the names of roads in the UK but it does not have an official meaning. Some are motorways, others special roads, others all purpose roads
In addition to what everyone else has said about cycle lanes, mandatory ones should be backed up by an order prohibiting motor traffic entering them which should also prohibit parking, they might also prohibit loading though many don't. In the case where somebody has just drawn a solid line without a properly made order to back it up the lane is effectively only advisory.
Re: Question About cycle Lane Signs/Use Mandatory/Advisory
Bicycler wrote:All non-motorway special roads should have their prohibitions explicitly signed.
They should ... but they don't.
Bicycler wrote:The simple answer is that you can cycle anywhere there isn't a motorway or prohibition sign telling you that you can't.
See above .
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