How Heavy is too Heavy?

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Paulatic
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by Paulatic »

I suppose having six bikes stolen must colour your judgement. I carry a Micky mouse lock and very often don't use it. Makes me happy to realise I move around in a relatively crime free area.
I do know how it must feel though as on one occasion I'd left my bike in Garstang and gone for a walk around the town. When I returned my bike wasn't there and my heart sunk. Thankfully I was looking in the wrong place.
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pwa
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by pwa »

Did that with my car yesterday.
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CREPELLO
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by CREPELLO »

Vantage wrote:
CREPELLO wrote:I'd difinately ditch the lock and not be governed by what one insurance company stipulates.


If the lock fails and your bike goes walkabout, you're left without both.
If the insurance company approved lock fails and the bike goes walkabout, you're left without both but the insurance pays out and the bike can be replaced.
That's a no brainer to me.

Absolutely. I wasn't suggesting that you forgo the insurance. If the silver standard matters though, the Evolution mini I use is also SS Silver, but I'm not sure that these standards are all they're cracked up to be. I find 'real life' tests conducted for various publications by reformed crim's are more informative to me.
For what it's worth and I may be worrying over nothing here, but I suspect that besides actual cyclists, there is the possibility that thieving scumbags also trawl cycling forums in the hope of finding info to make bike acquirements that little bit easier. It doesn't take a genious to find out many cyclists use toy locks in the countryside in the belief their bikes are safe. Van and bolt cropper and it's bye bye bike.
I've had roughly, 6 bikes stolen in my life, all within a year of owning them and I still remember the gut wrenching feeling in my stomach as each time I discovered them gone. My Vantage is the first bike I've personally bought ever to last more than a year under my watch. My current financial situation means it literally cannot be replaced if it disappeared. I'd rather a slow bike than a no bike :)
I can't argue with your unpleasant experiences, as you have been stung so many times. But the object of the thread was identifying what was heavy about your bike. Several others and myself have merely pointed out that your lock is exceptionally heavy. What may be entirely appropriate for leaving your bike locked up in a city, is not the same as what is needed in the countryside. As others have pointed out.

I think your observations about theiving scumbags driving around in a white van may be conceivable in a cycling tourist spot in high season, but highly unlikely for most rural areas, certainly at this time of year.
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mjr
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by mjr »

Vantage wrote:If the lock fails and your bike goes walkabout, you're left without both.
If the insurance company approved lock fails and the bike goes walkabout, you're left without both but the insurance pays out and the bike can be replaced.
That's a no brainer to me.

It's a no-brainer to me to either switch to a lighter D-lock which is also approved, or switch to an insurance company which doesn't require an outdated certification. I'd fear that the sort of insurance company requiring Sold Secure is the sort to try wriggling out of claims - I hope you've kept proof of purchase of that lock and take a photo of it each time you stop, else if the thief takes the lock pieces, then how can you prove you used it?

There's also a question of what the point of the lock is: if it's just to satisfy the insurer, then fine, keep on with one lock; but if you want to keep the bike, I'd use two locks of different types with one alarmed so you might get time to react (while they switch tools to cope with the other type) and catch them.
I've had roughly, 6 bikes stolen in my life, all within a year of owning them and I still remember the gut wrenching feeling in my stomach as each time I discovered them gone. My Vantage is the first bike I've personally bought ever to last more than a year under my watch. My current financial situation means it literally cannot be replaced if it disappeared. I'd rather a slow bike than a no bike :)

Given that, I'd probably keep on with the heavy-but-certified lock for now, but set some money aside to switch lock in the future, and switch insurers on renewal. We've lost only one bike, but that was annoying enough and why I think locking is not enough.

I agree about thieves realising many fast bike riders are using crap cafe locks or leaving them unlocked. Here's a recent one http://road.cc/content/news/142217-phot ... bike-thief "He targeted bicycles left unlocked outside cafes"
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Tonyf33
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by Tonyf33 »

For very hostile/high crime areas or where I would be leaving the bike out of sight for long periods (which for me is very very rarely) I've used an 'Alarm It' lock.
6.5mm thick aircraft grade cable, virtually unbreakable alarm unit and if you cut the cable you get a 120 decibels in your lug that the thief can't switch off.
I've probably used it less than half a dozen times on the bike in 12 years (I use it predominantly with a longer cable for garden stuff in the shed) it weighs approx 2lb most of which is the alarm unit and it fits in a pannier side pocket..
In terms of effectiveness, visual deterrant & small size it certainly works for me but I use a fairly standard cable lock for everyday use and on rides out on one of the summer bikes I wouldn't take a lock at all, aside from nipping into a pub/local shop in a village somewhere (where I would be able to see the bike at all times) why would you need to take a lock especially if you're in a group?
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TrevA
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by TrevA »

On our group rides, we only go to cafes where we can actually see the bikes from our seat in the cafe. I don't bother to lock mine at cafes. i've had 3 bikes stolen in 40 years, all were from city centre locations. I think out in the countryside, your chances of getting your bike stolen are much smaller.
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mjr
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by mjr »

Tonyf33 wrote:...on rides out on one of the summer bikes I wouldn't take a lock at all, aside from nipping into a pub/local shop in a village somewhere (where I would be able to see the bike at all times) why would you need to take a lock especially if you're in a group?

Many village shops have given all their windows over to advertisements so you can't see the bike at all times and even if you could, can you really get out of the shop, run and catch a thief who is riding off on your bike?

I put my bike in either top or small/small and the dynamo on when parked to slow them down a bit, but I think I'd still struggle so I usually lock it. Quite aside from the insurance (mine simply requires locked to an immovable object or something like that), I don't want to be walking home across the fens!

On our freewheeling group rides, we're often going to look at things and not just sit in cafes and look at our bikes the whole time - how dull that would be! So the bikes are quite often unattended, sometimes for a couple of hours (the flower cycle rides and the Reach Ride) so they're locked in as annoying-to-thieves way as we can manage with the stands available and whatever locks we're carrying.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Vantage
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by Vantage »

Well a quick (if ever there was a stupider word to describe my pace of cycling) 10 mile 'see how she feels being lighter' test ride today did indeed feel quicker. My average speed remained at 10.18mph which isn't a great deal different to the usual, but I was in jeans, jacket and walking boots instead of the faster feeling lycra and spuds and was a little more hilly on the return trip via the LBS. Had to buy a bagman as the pendle was at a stupid angle and bashing the mudguard and back of my legs. I swear this bike is gonna leave me bankrupt sooner or later. Carradices owner must be rolling in millions!
re the insurance. It'll have to be changed soon as the bike is now over 3 years old and therefor subject to their depreciation clause. Ridiculous. How it now costs less than £600 to replace my bike with its current model is a mystery to me. I may look into a home insurance provider that also covers the bike.
The proof of the pudding will be next Wednesday when the next ride is (if it's not cancelled) and we'll see how I do then.
As always, thanks for everyones views :)
Bill


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CJ
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by CJ »

I have lived in both rural and urban areas, including 6 years in Nottingham and 3 years in Cambridge, both places with high rates of bike theft, and have NEVER lost a bike in over 50 years of owning many bikes - in spite of relying upon pretty weak cable locks in low risk situations, deploying heavier locks only in locations I judge to carry a higher risk of bike theft. Nobody in my household has ever lost a bike in fact, but only so long as they were still in my household or still following my advice on bike security!

Parking your bike in some random place out in the countryside, even in a village, is really very safe. Reason: no bike thief in their right mind would cruise the countryside, because most of the time it would be a complete waste of time and with so few other people/vehicles around, the thief runs a high risk of being noticed as he pokes around looking for one to steal. I still ALWAYS lock the bike (in spite of the sometimes effusive insistence by one's host that it is not necessary), but only to guard against some opportunist strolling by and fancying a joyride on it. They won't have any tools, so not much of a lock is required.

With the increase in weekend cycling, some rural locations are beginning to offer sufficiently rick pickings to attract organised bike thieves. Most of the bikes in those locations however, are still not locked at all! So the risk for anyone who DOES lock remains very low, especially if their bike has enough unfashionably practical attributes (such as mudguards) to make it less easy to sell to the kind of idiot who buys a blatantly stolen bike! But this situation needs watching. If UK ever DOES become a cycle-friendly country like Holland, where all sorts of locations attract masses of cyclists and any fool can recognise a genuinely useful bike when he sees it, tourists will have to live with the same risks of bike theft as Holland. But we are nowhere near that yet - unfortunately.

The key to avoiding bike theft is to think like a thief. If you were going to steal bikes, where would you go? how would you do it? and what would cause you move on to a different location or a different bike? Answer those questions correctly and your bike will not be stolen. My two children did each lose a couple of bikes whilst at university, but they lost them by taking risks I would NEVER take in urban situations. Those are: 1) failing to lock to a solid object, 2) leaving the bike out of doors overnight (even if locked to a solid object), 3) failing to use a gold standard lock at an extreme high risk urban location (e.g. rail station bike park in scruffy area).

Apart from any urban street overnight, railway stations are surely the worst place of all to leave a bike. Apart from the rich pickings for thieves, they can work in the secure knowledge that the owner is far-far away and very unlikely to return in the next ten minutes. And if anyone challenges: they rented this cordless angle-grinder because they lost their key didn't they? For six months, I had to leave a bike once a week at Oxford Station all day. I used a very unfashionable bike and two big locks and parked it in a most conspicuous place, surrounded by plenty of more attractive but less securely locked bikes. And still I worried about it.

But when I lock my titanium tourer to the fence in clear view of the ticket office (no need to ask the staff to watch it, because the thief must assume I did) of some rural tourist attraction, I do not worry at all.

As for insurance companies' simple rules: they do not concern me. I CAN afford a new bike. So I do not need bike insurance. So I save the not inconsiderable sums I might otherwise have spent in premiums and buy myself a new bike or upgrade from time to time.

If all my bikes were stolen at once however, that would be embarrassing, so I DO include them in my normal household fire and theft cover.
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bigjim
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by bigjim »

Bolton Clarion as far as I am aware are a pretty competitive club. I ride out with Bury CTC and we cross paths pretty regularly. I've seen Clarion set a fair old pace. I see you are loyal to your club, but is it the same club you originally joined or has it changed out of recognition? If I want an easy, pleasant organised day, I ride out with South Manchester CTC B section. I find I am welcomed by both clubs. It's all CTC.
Bury can also get a move on depending on who is out [young, keen, carbon etc] but they don't complain about waiting for you. I'm probably the slowest hill climber there [they do a lot of hills] but it's not a problem for them. They only wait if there is a turnoff but I can usually keep them in sight. I've never come across criticism of bike or rider in either club.
It's good to ride out with a different mob sometimes.
Tonyf33
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by Tonyf33 »

mjr wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote:...on rides out on one of the summer bikes I wouldn't take a lock at all, aside from nipping into a pub/local shop in a village somewhere (where I would be able to see the bike at all times) why would you need to take a lock especially if you're in a group?

Many village shops have given all their windows over to advertisements so you can't see the bike at all times and even if you could, can you really get out of the shop, run and catch a thief who is riding off on your bike?

I put my bike in either top or small/small and the dynamo on when parked to slow them down a bit, but I think I'd still struggle so I usually lock it. Quite aside from the insurance (mine simply requires locked to an immovable object or something like that), I don't want to be walking home across the fens!

On our freewheeling group rides, we're often going to look at things and not just sit in cafes and look at our bikes the whole time - how dull that would be! So the bikes are quite often unattended, sometimes for a couple of hours (the flower cycle rides and the Reach Ride) so they're locked in as annoying-to-thieves way as we can manage with the stands available and whatever locks we're carrying.


Well of all the village shops I've stopped at 'unlocked' for the 25 years I've being perfectly capable of seeing my bike from inside. And given the spd's or racing pedals I'd say I'd have a very good chance of catching a thief. Everyone has different levels of security that's acceptable, in the OPs case it's a 5lb lock due to insurance etc, but in a group on club rides (which is what the OP is describing) unless you're planning to have lunch in a pub or go to look at things like yourself it's virtually pointless having a lock.
The gearing is a good idea.
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Vantage
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by Vantage »

In the whole year of 2012 that I was with the club, only once was I sat in a position that allowed me to keep an eye on the bike and that was during the height of summer when we were sitting outside the cafe soaking up the sun.
The worst cafe stop was locking the bikes to typical town centre bike stands, walking 3-4 mins to a supermarket (Booths I think), down past all the tills, up a flight of stairs and then walking to the back of a large cafe area were there enough room for all of us. I'll not be doing that ride again unless there's a change of cafe stop :)
Bill


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cosmicpop
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by cosmicpop »

You mentioned depreciation on your bike.
I'm insured with ETA:

https://www.eta.co.uk/insurance/cycle/

ETA don't devalue your bike over time. They also have clear guidelines as to what lock you need to keep your bike insured. I recently bought a £1k bike and they recommended a silver level lock so I got a Hiplok v1.50:

http://hiplok.com/bike-locks/hiplok-v150

This is a nearly 2Kg chain that you can wear. So you can decide on the spur of the moment if you need to take it with you, no need to fit a bracket to the bike.
Flinders
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Re: How Heavy is too Heavy?

Post by Flinders »

I keep a cable lock for quick trips into village shops when I can keep an eye on it, but if I'm gong into town, or expect to leave the bike anywhere for a long time, I use a heavy link lock.
I used just to use the cable lock even in town, but hearing of a spate of thefts made me more wary.

In London I'd never have dreamed of not using a secure, heavy lock.
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