Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

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661-Pete
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by 661-Pete »

Bonefishblues wrote:I must admit it did make me smile when I saw the suggestion yesterday - a thread like this could prejudice legal process? \
Errr.... that was me, for my sins. But I only repeated the warning that I've often seen posted in the past, regarding other but similar cases.

As regards 'Trial by Youtube' which is what this amounts to, I suppose: yes it does appear that we have come to this pass. :| Perhaps all those of us who use cameras on the bike, myself included, have become amateur detectives of a sort. Having said that, I should point out that since I acquired my camera, I have recorded dozens of hours of cycling footage. Number of 'interesting' incidents recorded to date: nil. Unless you count a borderline left-hook - by a police car.
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Psamathe
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by Psamathe »

reohn2 wrote:What I find surprising about this case is that the driver was only ''interviewed and subsequently charged with a public order offence'' after the video went 'viral'.
Are we to conclude that if the general public isn't fully aware of the crime there's no need to prosecute? :?
What has policing come to in this country?
Also who's decision should it be to charge offenders in such cases?

I would agree, except a lot must depend on the detail. For example, did the cyclist present the Police with the video when he reported the incident ? (Maybe he called in at the station on his way home and only downloaded the video later). Many possible reasons and I would not be expecting the Police to be trawling Video Sharing social web sites.

I can appreciate how the Police would need somebody to "complain". After all, with just a viral video, who is to say it is not a drama student project to illustrate what is maybe too common in the UK. I assume they need somebody to submit the evidence and to declare its validity. (Remember "War of the Worlds" in the US, 1938?).

Ian
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by Bonefishblues »

661-Pete wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I must admit it did make me smile when I saw the suggestion yesterday - a thread like this could prejudice legal process? \
Errr.... that was me, for my sins. But I only repeated the warning that I've often seen posted in the past, regarding other but similar cases.

As regards 'Trial by Youtube' which is what this amounts to, I suppose: yes it does appear that we have come to this pass. :| Perhaps all those of us who use cameras on the bike, myself included, have become amateur detectives of a sort. Having said that, I should point out that since I acquired my camera, I have recorded dozens of hours of cycling footage. Number of 'interesting' incidents recorded to date: nil. Unless you count a borderline left-hook - by a police car.

I wasn't having a pop at you, I was making a slightly wider point, perhaps inelegantly. I think the law has a particular challenge to overcome v-a-v the "modern" age where information and comment is so ubiquitous. Soon it will be really hard if not impossible to find a single Jurer who hasn't seen something previously regarding a high-profile event. It's hard to unknow what you know, as it was put to me.
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by reohn2 »

Psamathe wrote:I would agree, except a lot must depend on the detail. For example, did the cyclist present the Police with the video when he reported the incident ? (Maybe he called in at the station on his way home and only downloaded the video later). Many possible reasons and I would not be expecting the Police to be trawling Video Sharing social web sites.

I can appreciate how the Police would need somebody to "complain". After all, with just a viral video, who is to say it is not a drama student project to illustrate what is maybe too common in the UK. I assume they need somebody to submit the evidence and to declare its validity. (Remember "War of the Worlds" in the US, 1938?).

Ian


I'd agree that if the police weren't shown the video when the cyclist first reported it in December then yes.
But I'd think it's highly likely he did,and that was my assumption though I could be wrong.

I wouldn't think the police trawl Youtube etc looking for offenders,as they only need to trawl the streets for a 'war of the worlds' opportunity :wink: .
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reohn2
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by reohn2 »

Mark1978 wrote:That's pretty common really that when there is publicity the police decide to take action. Whereas from reading here and elsewhere without that they really aren't bothered to the extent of telling you to just go away.


That's been my experience too only the last one I ''got involved with',which was a few years back,came off worst,he started it but I finished it,he got out of the car with fists clenched looking very aggressive so I hit him with the bike, there then followed a chase around the car before I cornered him,he went all meek at that point :)
I did report it to the police but was told they couldn't trace the car :? .

I've thought long and hard about the way I react to 'incidents' these days,the strategy now is that it has to be serious for me to take any real action,revenge being a meal best served cold and all that.
As for the police In my neck of the woods,useless,completely useless,they've become very politrickal IMHO.
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iviehoff
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by iviehoff »

When we look at how difficult it was for Martin Porter QC, a leading lawyer, to get the police to take seriously and the CPS to prosecute the driver who assaulted him, recorded on his headcam, it is not surprising that another person unaware of this experience is discouraged and decides it is not a worthwhile use of what is likely to be a great deal of time and effort to do something about a case that ultimately only resulted in relatively minor injuries and damage. Probably the police never realised the various quite blatant other offences until the video was forcibly drawn to their attention.

Martin Porter's blogging has become rather intermittent of late, and I have only just read his post of 11 Dec 2014. We learn that fatally hitting a cyclist from behind if you really really just didn't see them, even in the absence of any good reason why you shouldn't have seen them, is still accidental death in England and Wales. It's not surprising that cyclists have so little confidence in the legal system to protect them. http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... mason.html
Flinders
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by Flinders »

I'd say that the police had a responsibility to the wider public to investigate this case further, whether the victim wanted them to or not, given that it involved a serious assault. You don't decide not to bother to investigate a murder because the victim isn't co-operating - or at least, I hope not.

Someone who assaults people needs at the very least to be cautioned, for the sake of all the rest of us, because people who do something like that and get away with it will take that as an encouragement, and do it again, and I suspect it's more than likely that the violence involved would escalate.
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by reohn2 »

iviehoff wrote:When we look at how difficult it was for Martin Porter QC, a leading lawyer, to get the police to take seriously and the CPS to prosecute the driver who assaulted him, recorded on his headcam, it is not surprising that another person unaware of this experience is discouraged and decides it is not a worthwhile use of what is likely to be a great deal of time and effort to do something about a case that ultimately only resulted in relatively minor injuries and damage. Probably the police never realised the various quite blatant other offences until the video was forcibly drawn to their attention.

Martin Porter's blogging has become rather intermittent of late, and I have only just read his post of 11 Dec 2014. We learn that fatally hitting a cyclist from behind if you really really just didn't see them, even in the absence of any good reason why you shouldn't have seen them, is still accidental death in England and Wales. It's not surprising that cyclists have so little confidence in the legal system to protect them. http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... mason.html


Exactly and it's my experience that being fobbed of is a matter of course for cyclist when reporting incidents to the police on four occasions I've been fobbed with some of the most ridiculous tales as to why the police couldn't proceed even with witnesses.
Abysmal describes the police service perfectly IME.
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661-Pete
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by 661-Pete »

iviehoff wrote:Martin Porter's blogging has become rather intermittent of late, and I have only just read his post of 11 Dec 2014. We learn that fatally hitting a cyclist from behind if you really really just didn't see them, even in the absence of any good reason why you shouldn't have seen them, is still accidental death in England and Wales. It's not surprising that cyclists have so little confidence in the legal system to protect them. http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... mason.html

Another reason why we need a Dutch-style 'presumption-of-motorist-at-fault' law here. But what political party - aside from the Greens (see clause TR156) is likely to risk its vote-grabbing neck in our car-centric society? :evil:
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
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Cunobelin
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by Cunobelin »

Sometimes the recourse to "limited action" can be the better option.


I had a close (very close) overtake, and complained with little result.

So I then complained about the number plate

"Prat plate" which only worked with illegal spacing....

At the end of the day they had the cost of new plates, the cost of the illegal plates, and the cost of purchasing a prat plate that no longer works

This may be several hundred pounds, and far more than a fixed penalty




IN the case of this company, the loss of reputation, removal from many of the "assurance" web sites and the press coverage will probably be enough to either severely hamper the firm's business, and in some cases drive them into liquidation
reohn2
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by reohn2 »

Cunobelin wrote:Sometimes the recourse to "limited action" can be the better option.


I had a close (very close) overtake, and complained with little result.

So I then complained about the number plate

"Prat plate" which only worked with illegal spacing....

At the end of the day they had the cost of new plates, the cost of the illegal plates, and the cost of purchasing a prat plate that no longer works

This may be several hundred pounds, and far more than a fixed penalty




IN the case of this company, the loss of reputation, removal from many of the "assurance" web sites and the press coverage will probably be enough to either severely hamper the firm's business, and in some cases drive them into liquidation

We can only hope :mrgreen:
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Vorpal
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by Vorpal »

661-Pete wrote:Another reason why we need a Dutch-style 'presumption-of-motorist-at-fault' law here. But what political party - aside from the Greens (see clause TR156) is likely to risk its vote-grabbing neck in our car-centric society? :evil:

it's not a presumption of fault. It's more like a duty of care. If a motorist hits a vulnerable road user with a car, s/he has failed in duty of care. All that means is that the motorist is liable for the injuries and damage.

On the other hand, I have a hard time believing that if a motorist hit a cyclist from behind, the Dutch police wouldn't prosecute the driver.
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by Vorpal »

Mark1978 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:Commentary on this thread has been removed for legal reasons.


What legal reasons are those Vorpal?

I wanted to remove the speculation, but I didn't have much time. I will attempt to replace some of the posts that contained information or discussion, but without speculation. Sorry if it makes the thread a bit muddled :?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Mark1978
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by Mark1978 »

It also seems that the cyclist must act in a completely saint like manner. Cycle perfectly, brake at the exact time, do not use any profanities or show any sort of aggression, any sort of transgression howsoever small will mean he "deserved what he got" whatever that may be.
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Re: Cyclist Assaulted By Taylor Landscaping Worker

Post by The fat commuter »

I sometimes wonder whether having the word 'Smile' on your back and a picture of a camera would make drivers more responsible. That said, to some it would be like a red rag to a bull.

I think that if the police don't do anything in this particular instance then we are going to get more drivers thinking that they can 'get away with it' and more cyclists taking the law into their own hands and doing 'trial by YouTube'.
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