ASL and motorcyclists

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
kwackers
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by kwackers »

meic wrote:Feel free to have the last word if you wish.

Thanks.
Vorpal
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by Vorpal »

I would never filter right to turn left, or at the very least, I would rejoin the flow of traffic well before the junction, then turn left, following the practice for all vehicles, and from the correct lane. I might consider using a left filter lane, if I felt it were safe.

I don't like starting into a junction from between lanes. I've tried it a couple of times, and on a busy roundabout, it's a scary experience. While I much prefer to rejoin the flow of traffic before a junction, I have on a couple of occasions gone to the front of a queue (when motor vehicle drivers have blocked me from rejoining the traffic lane) rather than get stuck between lanes.

I don't think I want to get stuck between lanes on a motorcyle, either. It's hard enough to claim space on a junction using a normal travel lane. Without lane discipline, it's far easier to be 'hidden' by another vehicle, or fall out of the normal line of sight.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
kwackers
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by kwackers »

Vorpal wrote:I would never filter right to turn left, or at the very least, I would rejoin the flow of traffic well before the junction, then turn left, following the practice for all vehicles, and from the correct lane. I might consider using a left filter lane, if I felt it were safe.

To be honest I don't think I've ever done that either. Usually it's a case of dropping back into lane earlier than I would normally do, or sitting near the biggest gap I can find with my front wheel buried in it.
I wouldn't go to the front of a queue (on a motorcycle) unless I could make a quick getaway. I feel guilty for queue jumping and thus morally bound not to hold up anyone at the front. Turning left (even if it were safe) breaks that since most junctions wouldn't allow you to do it.
I'd have no problems with a left filter lane though, although I wouldn't filter left if there were no lane.
AlaninWales
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by AlaninWales »

As a motorcyclist I early learned to try to avoid entering a junction alongside another vehicle - being between lanes of vehicles just makes it infinitely worse ('meat in the sandwich' is a phrase I've heard describing this). As a car driver and as a cyclist I continue the practice of avoiding having anyone alongside in a junction and will slow or speed up as necessary to do so. On a pedal cycle of course, the ability to out-speed a motor vehicle is somewhat limted :lol: .

On the original topic, as a cyclist I dislike motor vehicles of any kind using the ASL as there is too much potential for damaging a more vulnerable* road user. A considerate and well behaved motorcyclist is no problem, but as with any form of transport not all are considerate and well-behaved. Exactly the same can be said of course for cars, trucks, buses and pedal cycles, but the last named are far less likely to damage a cyclist.



*The only time I ever wore shorts when riding a motorcycle was (fortunately) on the way to the swimming baths. The exhaust was on the left and near to the centre stand arm. By the time I got out of the baths, the burn was quite reduced :) . Motorcycles by reason of weight and heat can easily damage a pedal cyclist.
JayGatsby
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by JayGatsby »

The only scenario I dislike is when a motorcyclist, having overtaken a queue of traffic on the right, stops in the ASL but in such a way that it prevents anyone else from entering it from the right side by occupying that gap. I have ended up on the right side of a car at red lights a number of times that way and it's rather unpleasant.
Otherwise I don't care if they're in the ASL, so long as they keep a safe distance.
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Revolution
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by Revolution »

I too ride a motorcycle (2days commute on the motorbike and 3 days bicycle) I think I can safely say that I am the only motorcyclist in Bristol who respects ASL and only use them when on my bicycle not the motorbike. ASL's are there for the safety of cyclist's not the convenience of motorcyclists. :wink:
kwackers
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by kwackers »

Revolution wrote:ASL's are there for the safety of cyclist's not the convenience of motorcyclists. :wink:

Are they safer? I seem to think there's an awful lot of debate on that subject for anyone to declare it as fact... :wink:
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by [XAP]Bob »

That's what they're for. Their effectiveness is a different question.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
kwackers
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by kwackers »

[XAP]Bob wrote:That's what they're for. Their effectiveness is a different question.

If they're not effective then the best thing is for everyone to ignore them thus rendering them impotent rather than offer a false sense of security to cyclists.
beardy
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by beardy »

The car drivers are doing their best to oblige you. :lol:
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by [XAP]Bob »

They can be effective.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
philehidiot
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by philehidiot »

Cheers for the discussion - the opinions are very varied.

On balance I think my continued, considerate use of the ASL with due consideration to whether I'm blocking cyclists getting to the front and whether they're turning left or right in front of me. I also didn't consider burning cyclists with the exhaust but I don't think I've ever got that close.

It's a tricky one as I can't please everyone. As people say, it's queue jumping and it's a matter of doing it with minimal interference and annoyance to other road users. I personally think that means jumping to the head of the queue whilst it's stationary so no one has to think about you as you're just gone on a motorcycle.

Good compromise?
mark1964
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by mark1964 »

My thoughts on the matter:

1. Some motorbikes can accelerate faster than cars, so why would they need to use a facility designed for slower moving bicycles?. They should easily be able to match the traffic flow.
2. It simply encourages others. Several times I have been unable to get into the ASL due to it being blocked by four or five motorbikes.

3.Whoof - had a similar experience. Was sitting in centre of ASL intending to turn right. Biker on large machine enters the ASL behind me, moves over to my left hand side and revs engine loudly as if to intimidate me. I asked him which direction he was turning as he was not indicating, but got ignored. Lights change, I pull out to turn right and the ****** cuts me up by executing a right hand turn from my left hand side :evil:

I suspect many motorcyclists filter and enter the ASL simply because it's convenient. I have witnessed some barge into the ASL, often positioning themselves badly then race each other to the next red light :? . I have also heard the safety argument. My counter-argument to it is that your average motorbike is that something like a 1500cc machine capable of being ridden at 100mph on motorways (have seen this too) is far, far more likely to be involved in an accident at speed. Some motorcyclists clearly aren't bothered by this, but suddenly become 'concerned' about safety when confronted with a line of stationary traffic so that they feel it necessary to encroach into the cycling facility :? .

One annoying 'habit' that some motorcyclists have is that assuming they are allowed into the ASL, they seem to think that the cycle lane leading into it is also fair game. One could call this 'habit creep'. You break one rule and then breaking others seems OK as some folk have a tendency to justify their actions in this manner. I assume that some cyclists here have been in this situation: You are riding in the cycle lane and up ahead is a jam. No problem as the lane will allow you to enter the ASL on the left. Just as you get near the first car in the line - Whoosh! - some nut on a motorbike cuts into the lane so that they can access the ASL :twisted: .

Of course, not all motorcyclists behave this way. But I do feel that the motorcycling community should respect the cycle facilities more. They are, after all, not really for motorbikes which I look on as a bit like cars minus two wheels. They are fast, noisy, have an internal combustion engine and pollute. My bike isn't allowed on motorways, so what's the issue with respecting a little road space reserved for cyclists?.
mark1964
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Re: ASL and motorcyclists

Post by mark1964 »

Revolution wrote:I too ride a motorcycle (2days commute on the motorbike and 3 days bicycle) I think I can safely say that I am the only motorcyclist in Bristol who respects ASL and only use them when on my bicycle not the motorbike. ASL's are there for the safety of cyclist's not the convenience of motorcyclists. :wink:

I think I saw you once :) Thankyou for your opinion. Some bikers here in Bristol couldn't give a monkeys about how they ride (seems to be a lot of them 'confused' by what constitutes a bus lane. It's NOT a thin strip of painted asphalt about the width of a bicycle) so it's reassuring to hear from someone who does respect the facilities for other road users.
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