Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

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Tonyf33
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Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by Tonyf33 »

I experienced my very first dangerous cycling yesterday evening whilst driving from my brothers to maters whilst visiting family in Hull for Christmas. I was waiting in the centre straight on lane here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.76845 ... z24DTg!2e0 a cyclist approached in right hand filter lane cutting across one car obviosuly turning right (so at that point thought he was turning right) and then he swerves right across me forcing me to brake, I alays check both mirrors before pulling away & was able to react in time but he missed my bonnet by inches, 80-90% of others i reckon there would have being a collison.
Annoyingly there's a cycle filter lane to the left of the straight on lane so there's enough space to go to the left and carry on straight, I've cycled this route many times in busy traffic so I know there is plenty enough space, either that or just sodding wait behind the 2 or 3 cars that were behind me.. :twisted: :twisted:

I felt so angry..firstly because that's the worst bit of cycling I've seen personally, secondly because if it were not for my awareness and quick reactions he'd have been under my wheels or smashed into my windscreen (likely the former) causing me great consternation & a couple of hours wasted time at the scene and chasing up damages etc ..and thirdly it's p####s like that that propagate the them and us situation. :twisted: well done :roll:

It's up there in the top 10 rank outrageously selfish, stupid & (comparatively) dangerous manoeuvres I've ever personally experienced and I've being around, both as a motorist (incl 7 years as a London commuter) & as a cyclist. Putting yourself in danger of being killed/seriously injured and the fallout for everyone else just makes my blood boil.

he had all the gear, a decent bike..good bright lights..noddy hat...but no flipping idea, I drove alongside for a short distance and told him what a twonk he was and that cycling like that is likely to get you killed & what peeves people off and makes it worse for the rest of us but he just blanked me..probably because he knew he was completely in the wrong.
I really wanted to pull up further and confront him but I suspect idiots like that don't give a flying one and won't learn until something drastic happens.

Well whomever you are Mr.selfishdontgiveaflyingfig one day you'll be under the wheels of someone not so alert to your rank stupidity and/or something much larger that won't see you cutting across dangerously and you'll be another statistic :x

Rant Over
Tonyf33
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007, 3:31pm
Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by Tonyf33 »

How does that help..id already seen him on my right cutting in front of a right turning vehicle.it was him doing a 90 degree turn across my bows that I couldn't have predicted.
ferdinand
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Joined: 31 Oct 2014, 6:59pm

Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by ferdinand »

It means that if you are the innocent party you have evidence that you were dealing with a 'suicide cyclist'.

Don't forget the (imo bonkers) campaign to make things default to being the motorist's fault. If that comes in and you have no evidence, but it turns into an a said b said argument ... I wouldn't want to be in that situation.

I already wear a discreet Replay XD helmet cam most of the time - single button on, single button record, and I don't look like too much of a Meebon; I have a car one for Christmas Yay!

Ferdinand
Bicycler
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Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by Bicycler »

Tonyf33 wrote:secondly because if it were not for my awareness and quick reactions he'd have been under my wheels or smashed into my windscreen (likely the former) causing me great consternation & a couple of hours wasted time at the scene and chasing up damages etc ..and thirdly it's p####s like that that propagate the them and us situation. :twisted: well done :roll:

Whilst I sympathise with your 'rant' I think there might have been more important losses than your time chasing up damages had he in fact gone under your wheels.

As for the them and us situation, the cause isn't bad cycling it is drivers looking at bad cycling differently to bad driving. A bad driver is perceived as a bad egg, a bad cyclist represents cyclists as a whole. Now we can do one of two things to solve that:

1) We can wait for all cyclists to be perfectly behaved and never make mistakes, obey all the rules drivers think exist such as using cycle facilities, riding near the kerb and never in the centre of the lane, not riding on busy roads and always jumping out of the way when there's a car behind. Once that is achieved we can pay road tax, pass a test and obtain insurance and then we may be reluctantly accepted as legitimate but inferior road users.

OR

2) We can challenge the belief that cyclists as a whole should be held accountable for individual acts of bad cycling and seek to be treated, like drivers, as individual road users.
ferdinand wrote:Don't forget the (imo bonkers) campaign to make things default to being the motorist's fault. If that comes in and you have no evidence, but it turns into an a said b said argument ... I wouldn't want to be in that situation.

The problem here is the slightly British obsession with fault, guilt and blame, not of responsibility. It is vaguely acceptable for drivers in the current situation where their or others bad driving is wholly insured and drivers are safely encapsulated in their little safety cells and rarely in any danger. Thus road collision generally amount to a load of macho posturing and foul language at the roadside and numerous phone calls and strongly worded letters to and from insurance companies. The worst that will commonly happen is that somebody's insurance premium goes up.

When you add vulnerable road users to the mix the stakes this situation becomes inadequate. A collision with a cyclist (pedal or motor), pedestrian, or equestrian is likely to result in injury to that person. The person cannot visit a body part retailer to get a new colour matched skull panel. Money is poor compensation for injury and the sense of violation that comes with your life being endangered and your body being harmed.

Some drivers would like to suggest that the situation is no different "we are all responsible for our own safety" etc. Whilst no-one can deny the need to act responsibly, we cannot in any moral sense view the endangering and the endangered as having equal responsibility to each other. The concept of 50/50 'fault' may be acceptable for motors but it means nothing when one party is dead and the other has a bit of blood on their bumper. To my mind our duty of care to others increases in direct proportion to our ability to cause harm. The way I see it as a driver is that it is my responsibility to do everything I can reasonably do to account for the actions of other people on the road. In the event of a collision the question asked of a driver should not be "did you have priority" but "could you reasonably have prevented the collision" Notice that this is not to say that a driver is always responsible for a collision.

Presumed or strict liability have long been part of the law in many European countries and contrary to the screams of this country's motor lobby have not resulted in drivers being victimised or cyclists misbehaving with impunity. Affecting civil claims only, such laws do not end the criminal law protection of being innocent until proven guilty as the unholy trio of the AA, RAC and Daily Mail shamefully misled the public when this was proposed for the UK a few years ago. Personally I'd happily see the criminal laws reformed to make it easier to prosecute bad driving and also to establish a statutory duty of care to vulnerable road users. Until all the self interest of the motoring concerns disappears and that particular pig can fly, presumed liability would be step in the right direction.

The other half is back from her run. I will have to go now :oops:

Merry Christmas Tony and Ferdinand
Tonyf33
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007, 3:31pm
Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by Tonyf33 »

Bicycler...I first and foremost said I'd feel great consternation ..does that not indicate the stress and upset that I would have felt even if for someone whom caused their own demise. your comment is uncalled for as you seem to be indicating my first concern was to myself..clearly it wasn't!
TonyR
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Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by TonyR »

Not sure I quite get the problem here. AIUI from your post you were stopped in a queue in the straight ahead lane. To your right was a right turn lane, to your left it looks from Google maps like a left turn lane with a feeder cycle lane to an ASL sandwiched in between for the last few yards up to the junction.

If that summary is correct then I would almost always pass the queue on the right to the ASL, not the cycle lane on the left and then slot back in if the traffic started moving which is what your cyclist seems to have done. The problem seems to have been that he cut across you in doing so but I don't quite get your account. You were stopped and saw him in your mirrors when you checked before pulling away so say you had time to react. But your mirrors only show behind you and you wouldn't have known you needed to react until he was in front of you. If I were in that situation in the car with a cyclist overtaking alongside on my off-side I would pause in case they wanted to pull back in. So really not sure what there was to get so wound up about unless I've misinterpreted something above.
PRL
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Location: Richmond upon Thames

Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by PRL »

TonyR wrote:Not sure I quite get the problem here. AIUI from your post you were stopped in a queue in the straight ahead lane. To your right was a right turn lane, to your left it looks from Google maps like a left turn lane with a feeder cycle lane to an ASL sandwiched in between for the last few yards up to the junction.

If that summary is correct then I would almost always pass the queue on the right to the ASL, not the cycle lane on the left and then slot back in if the traffic started moving


I do that where there is no cycle lane provided and when I am fairly confident that the light timing would enable me to reach the ASL. Relying on being able to slot in as traffic is just moving looks like gratuitous conflict.
TonyR
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Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by TonyR »

PRL wrote: Relying on being able to slot in as traffic is just moving looks like gratuitous conflict.


Not really, a bike accelerates much quicker than a car from standstill so its never been a problem for me slotting back in without causing anyone any problems. Usually just need to decide whether to do it in front or behind the car I'm alongside at the time.
mike_dowler
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Joined: 21 Aug 2013, 1:39pm

Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by mike_dowler »

Indeed, how many times have you had to brake because a car moved in an unexpected way? Did you feel the need to post a rant each time then?
I'm not condoning bad cycling, but I don't subscribe to the view that a cat driver needs a medal merely for taking action to avoid running over another road user.
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[XAP]Bob
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by [XAP]Bob »

you can see the front of the queue start to move and moderate speed such that you are between cars as the front one pulls away. since you are still moving you follow it and the car you've just passed then starts, but a gap has to be left - you are in that gap...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by thirdcrank »

This is a link to the recent "hit from behind" thread

viewtopic.php?p=849116#p849116

This bit is particularly significant -

Carmel McLoughlin was standing just a few metres away from the scene of the collision as she waited for a bus told the inquest Mr Mason had caught her attention because he was not wearing a helmet.
She said: 'I remember Mr Mason standing out because it's unusual to see a cyclist who doesn't have a hi-vis jacket or a helmet.'
She added: 'I noticed him overtaking the black car that was in the collision.
'I think I heard the bang, I looked round and I saw Mr Mason being thrown into the air – he was on the off side, so the side nearest to the driver.'
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squeaker
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Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by squeaker »

thirdcrank wrote:This is a link to the recent "hit from behind" thread

viewtopic.php?p=849116#p849116

This bit is particularly significant -

Carmel McLoughlin was standing just a few metres away from the scene of the collision as she waited for a bus told the inquest Mr Mason had caught her attention because he was not wearing a helmet.
She said: 'I remember Mr Mason standing out because it's unusual to see a cyclist who doesn't have a hi-vis jacket or a helmet.'
She added: 'I noticed him overtaking the black car that was in the collision.
'I think I heard the bang, I looked round and I saw Mr Mason being thrown into the air – he was on the off side, so the side nearest to the driver.'


I keep wondering how much of a part that the forward right hand blind spot played in the case TC links to. IIRC the vehicle in that case was a Nissan Joke (well, I think they are a joke :roll: ) and I don't know how tall the driver was but having once seen a 4x4 driven by a small woman peering through the steering wheel, I take nothing for granted these days. The Joke does have elephant ears for mirrors though, but not much use if they are not used...
"42"
thirdcrank
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Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by thirdcrank »

Whatever, but the rider was killed and the inquest brought an accidental verdict.
Tonyf33
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Re: Awful, awful cycling and I feel totally incensed

Post by Tonyf33 »

Just to clarify i was moving already and had to brake suddenly as the rider cut right across from the right turn only lane, there is no room to filter on the right of the straight on lane and to do so just means you'd still have to cut across the front of the vehicles in front, given the lights had already gone green his actions were tantamount to suicide/recklessness.
It is pretty clear from the road layout that the filtering is from the left of the central lane to reach the ASL and had he done this it would have being obvious his intention to go straight on and there would be no conflict.
How you can't see the problem of a cyclist approaching from a right turn only lane (having already cut in front of another motorist) and them cutting a 90 degree left in front of an already moving car to reach the left side of that lane when just filtering on the left where all the space is, is beyond me.
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