Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

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Tonyf33
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Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by Tonyf33 »

So, Cameron and his henchmen have spouted more rubbish about £15Bn to be spent on roads, how on earth can any government justify such spending when it has being shown not to help ease congestion anywhere. What can be done to pursuade these and any other following governments that this just isn't the way to go with infrastructure and if 10% of this was spent (properly) on cycling infrastructure it would ease congestion where needed within a very short space of time..
they're all complete moronic idiots the lot of them.. :twisted:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30269231
reohn2
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by reohn2 »

TBH I think it's a lost cause talking sense to idiots.
The 15Bn will be spent,the road builders will cash in,the governing party will get the backhanders,motor traffic will increase and as a result the motor and petrochemical industries will also increase profit,and people will think it's all a godsend and for a short time it will be.
But as a result,there'll be more pollution,more on street parking,and down the road(sic) in an ever shorter timescale another bunch of politrickians in the pocket of multinational business moguls will be doing the same all over again.
We ain't learning,we ain't learning because we're being told there ain't no alternative,some people think there is but there ain't enough of them.

The answer to the car ain't the bike,that's only any use for very short distances and with an ever increasingly unfit population the chances of even that,slips further away with each passing year.

In a capitalist system where profit comes first,there ain't enough profit in a decent public transport system that solves the problem.
So until the population see sense,and politrickians in turn dance to a sensible population's sensible alternative transport system or we reach total gridlock for more often than we don't,nothing will change.

PS,I remember a certain politrickian promising growth year on year,where traffic's concerned he wasn't wrong in one sense :?
Last edited by reohn2 on 2 Dec 2014, 8:52am, edited 1 time in total.
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mrjemm
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by mrjemm »

Doesn't help that the oil price is right down at the mo, making everyone feel free to drive everywhere without a care in the world, and being an election in a few months, if someone else ends in power they'll have this around their neck and unable to do anything about it, leaving it as the proverbial albatros, which is a popular Tory tactic- remember Mandelson's folly that Labour ended up getting blamed for? Yet when Labour started things that ended well when Tories took over power, Labour got forgotten; Olympics, "Boris'" bikes... etc.

Imagine that £15bn being used on the rail network, and I don't mean the Emporer's High Speed fashion.
ANTONISH
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by ANTONISH »

Another grandiose scheme from the "greenest government ever".
Almost all politicians appear to be indifferent to the appalling state of the existing road structure - particularly the rural road network.
Of course improved maintenance doesn't have the same ring to a politicians ears - more difficult to strut to that at a party conference.
This may just be Cameron's " promise of the week".
Next week he'll come up with some other loony scheme.
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mjr
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by mjr »

Retweeted:
Liz Almond @liz545 15h
Since councils are spending cycling funding on turbo roundabouts, we can spend this new roads money on bike lanes, right?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Mark1978
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by Mark1978 »

Isn't the problem that cycling money doesn't come out of the same pot as 'roads' money. So if you wanted a cycling scheme added to a 'roads' scheme you'd need to secure a seperate source of funding. Which of course is stupid, cycling provision should come out of exactly the same budget as general roads spending.
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mjr
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by mjr »

Mark1978 wrote:Isn't the problem that cycling money doesn't come out of the same pot as 'roads' money. So if you wanted a cycling scheme added to a 'roads' scheme you'd need to secure a seperate source of funding. Which of course is stupid, cycling provision should come out of exactly the same budget as general roads spending.

I don't know of any reason why cycling schemes can't be funded from general roads budgets, but very few highway authorities do it. Norfolk County Council does sometimes, but it does also seem that cycling provision is the first element to be cut if any part of the project overruns its budget (I've loads of examples), because it's widely seen as acceptable to provide half a cycle route and dump people back onto roads that they just made bigger, busier and more complicated :-( or to use a cheaper courtesy crossing instead of signals or zebras even to cross a horribly dangerous and unfriendly 5-lane road.
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Psamathe
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by Psamathe »

The investment in infrastructure has little to do with traffic. If you analyse the selected roads, they are all either too or within areas of strong UKIP support. So little more than a "party election campaign", now knows as "Motorways for Marginals"

Several separate sources have identified this. Saw something on TV with a "dramatic" map of the new schemes and UKIP areas. And Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/01/nick-clegg-lib-dems-conservatives-road-building-programme

Ian
Postboxer
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by Postboxer »

Selective map in that article, why isn't all of it filled in? Don't think all the white areas are a fourth party I can't think of.
AlaninWales
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by AlaninWales »

Well, for the dribblings that are made available for spending on cycling, https://chestercycling.wordpress.com/2014/12/01/spending-tips/ has some spending tips :wink:
iviehoff
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by iviehoff »

Tonyf33 wrote:when it has being shown not to help ease congestion anywhere.

What is the evidence for this claim? Casual experience suggests to me that well-designed by-passes (and some are rubbish due to poor design) are generally very effective at easing congestion in the places they by-pass, but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise by some good evidence.

Of course ultimately demand may grow and fill the road again, but that isn't the same thing.
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mjr
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by mjr »

iviehoff wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote:when it has being shown not to help ease congestion anywhere.

What is the evidence for this claim? Casual experience suggests to me that well-designed by-passes (and some are rubbish due to poor design) are generally very effective at easing congestion in the places they by-pass, but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise by some good evidence.

It is all too common for a bypass to leave conflicting movements where it rejoins the old road and the bypass has priority which leads to queues stretching back into the bypassed place, even when queues rarely reached there before. The traffic may have been heavy, but it kept moving. But this is the real point:
Of course ultimately demand may grow and fill the road again, but that isn't the same thing.

Studies like the one from the University of Toronto suggest that it's not "may grow" it's "will grow" and now you've got two congested roads instead of one, so how can that be called eased?

Like has been pointed out many times in the last few days, roadbuilding to ease congestion is like loosening your belt to ease obesity: it's a short-term help that is normally long-term harmful.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Wilf Roberts
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by Wilf Roberts »

reohn2 wrote:The answer to the car ain't the bike,that's only any use for very short distances and with an ever increasingly unfit population the chances of even that,slips further away with each passing year.


I don't know what you mean by "very short distances" but if you replaced even a minority of the sub-5 mile journeys undertaken by car in my local town with cycle trips the effect would be startling!
pete75
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by pete75 »

There's a general election in 6 months time and this policy will be popular with most voters.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Mark1978
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Re: Road Revolution £15Bn on roads..yet naff all for cycling

Post by Mark1978 »

Wilf Roberts wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The answer to the car ain't the bike,that's only any use for very short distances and with an ever increasingly unfit population the chances of even that,slips further away with each passing year.


I don't know what you mean by "very short distances" but if you replaced even a minority of the sub-5 mile journeys undertaken by car in my local town with cycle trips the effect would be startling!


Chicken and egg isn't it. Why are those sub-5 mile journeys done by car? Because cycling feels too dangerous because of all the cars.
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