Is it time for radicalism?

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reohn2
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote:I am still mystified, what is this radicalism?

Al


Put another way, is it time to think again about the way we move about,in that the way we're currently doing it is,dirty from an ecological POV,inefficient in time and energy consumption,a dead end so,do we wait until we reach saturation point and the brick wall is reached,then start to make decisions?
It seems,going off one or two posts, that once again the only motivation to carry on as we are, is profit,a belief in perpetual motion,where car manufacture and use increases GDP and such an increase is supportive to build more cars increase GDP and we're all the better for it :?
Some are looking further down the street and can see the wall,others are more interested in gorging themselves in the trough of consumerism.

Take a look on any urban street after 6pm,it's full of cars,they sit there until it's time for work then they transport their owners to work and sit on a car park somewhere all day until the pattern is repeated.
Is there a better way to move around?

So what do we do,continue on the same street until it's so full of cars that we cannot,even if we want to,walk down that street.
Or are we to look outside the box(on wheels)for another means of transporting what are small units(people)about the country to carry out their business,bearing in mind most journeys are short to medium distance?

I'm asking the question.
Is there a better way to do this thing?
It appears that the question in itself is radical enough,let alone actually finding an answer to what is a very real problem for the country as a whole if not the whole of mankind.
I'm of the opinion that for many it's like a creeping cancer that hasn't been noticed for what it is,from the stress levels caused by driving in high traffic levels,to the big slice of their income taken up by owning and running a motor car,to the diseases caused by car use,to the numerous Middle East wars caused by oil reserves in that part of the world and not the smoke screen of religion,which is just a spin off of an occupation army and puppet governments put in place by what is termed as 'the great evil' by those defending their own countries from what they see as total domination,however evil they themselves have become in the process.
Is there a better way than this?

What practical steps IYV should be taken?

The answer surely,rather than people move around singularly(which is more often than not)in small boxes that clog up the highways when in use,and streets,roads and spare ground when not,is to to move those people around en-bloc in bigger vehicles ie; clean,reliable,comfortable,affordable,public transport.
Of course it's not a total answer but could take an awful lot of the burden off the roads,use of odds and even numberplated cars on alternative days could also help,better and more useful cycling facilities for those short runs to the public transport stops/hubs.With very few exceptions,car use banned in city and town centres,park and ride and bicycles being the only way to access whose centres for able bodied people,within the centres electric buggy hire for those that can't walk far for whatever reason.
Ceasing to build out of town shopping malls that need a car to get to.

Ceasing to promise economic growth year on year based on a carcentricism(new word :shock: )

Some of this is being done already but it's merely tinkering around the edges ATM,there could be much more......
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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mrjemm
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by mrjemm »

I like the idea of something radical being done.

Carcentrism is truly the current status of society. Cars are, as we are all well aware, the ultimate toy, the primary symbol of status and the leisure item perhaps only matched in favour by the television. The sooner the 'pleasure' and status derived from car ownership and (over/ab)use, the far better. By making cars utilitarian devices with minimal comfort and variation between versions, and taking control out of the hands of the occupant, car use will likely diminish radically, I suspect.

They are of course very useful, but that should be their extent. There should be a limited or even no element of pleasure in the use of them, and this use should be not easy to abuse- i.e. all are capable of the same, restricted, performance- i.e. take away the boy's favoured aspect of 'Top Trumps'- "my car does/costs/is...". I know there are arguments about the limitations of automation systems in current development, but all those are possible to overcome I would like to assume.

Many times I have said here how I would love a self-driving car. And judging by the number of people I see texting, reading and eating while driving, I am not alone. Let alone those that enjoy a tipple and then decide that is no reason to avoid the wheel...

I am as weak in this matter as many, and do drive unnecessary journeys, but reducing cars to more socially acceptable tools like this would likely result in improved public transport, or would at least improve the chances of success for investment in improved public/mass transport. I live in hope, but not enough hope to believe in continuing the folly of humanity. We are destroying the planet, and it is not going to stop, probably not even slow down. So if you have children, or even grandchildren, good luck.
maxcherry
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by maxcherry »

But we need cars!
And trucks, vans etc

It's not about the vehicle it's about the mindset of the person/organization driving the vehicle.

If people want to drive alone, then why not! Not going to force a person to do something they
don't want to do, neither would I force a person to get it another's car.

Unless the mindset of the whole of the UK is changed over night, cars and bikes will always be at
odds for space.

It's like saying 'Lets radicalize against racism'. It's not going to happen, unless you do the whole world in one
night.

People are idiots.
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!
mrjemm
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by mrjemm »

maxcherry wrote:But we need cars!
And trucks, vans etc


Nope. We like'em and they're useful, but...

It's not about the vehicle it's about the mindset of the person/organization driving the vehicle.


Yup, so make'em computers, not the idiot (your word) sitting there.

If people want to drive alone, then why not! Not going to force a person to do something they
don't want to do, neither would I force a person to get it another's car.


Perhaps we should force folks to do things they don't like, say perhaps kinda like pay for things, clean up after themselves, be responsible, wear condoms.

Unless the mindset of the whole of the UK is changed over night, cars and bikes will always be at
odds for space.

It's like saying 'Lets radicalize against racism'. It's not going to happen, unless you do the whole world in one
night.


Nope, don't have a clue what you're on about. How would something happening globally overnight make something like this happen, whilst otherwise not? Are you saying it's only effective if it happens like this? I don't understand what you're saying.

People are idiots.


Yup. No argument there.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by al_yrpal »

Thanks for explaining R2. I agree with your aims, however revolution just won't happen because not enough people want it. The only hope is to keep chipping away to promote evolution.
Like everywhere there are traffic pressures here, but we have a massive new mass transport hub at Reading with massive extra capacity as bottlenecks are freed, and Cross Rail is coming soon increasing capacity and comfort for commuters into London. Electrification of the West main line is proceeding. We already have one of the Uk's best local bus services as well as a lot of council and volunteer run minibuses for the old and people in remote villages and locations. Reading are in the process of building a cycle bridge over the Thames. This is all good, as is the local office building in and around Reading which gives an alternative to more office space in London equidistant from Heathrow.
However they are now going to widen the M4 into London with new traffic management signs to regulate speed, this is obviously a step back. I live in South Oxfordshire who refuse to allow Park and Rides in Oxfordshire on Readings borders or to consider cycle paths alongside the lethal entry roads. They also resist a new Thames bridge for pedestrians cyclists and light local traffic. Us locals can only keep the pressure up as for as I can see. Its evolution not revolution because thats all that will realistically happen.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
reohn2
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote:Thanks for explaining R2. I agree with your aims, however revolution just won't happen because not enough people want it. The only hope is to keep chipping away to promote evolution.

Al

I'm not calling for revolution but reasonable change for the good of all.Evolution suggests glacially sloowwww change.
IMO we don't have the time,for the good of the nation something needs doing and PDQ.
I'm forwarding the need for ideas for change,for the better for all not some kind of harsh restriction of human rights(?) or replacing society with some 1984 jackboot state.But a more convenient means of transport for people,rather than present attempts to shoehorn more and more single occupant cars on the present road system,or expanding that system to take that increase capacity when there are very viable alternatives which aren't being exploited with any kind urgency.

Another point that's been brought up is the physical size of individual private vehicles and the subliminal sales pitch that bigger is better because bigger is safer,which is a self fulfilling prophecy,how big does a vehicle need to be to transport what for the most part is one person with occasional family use?
That's something in need of consideration on an already overcrowded road system,wouldn't you say?
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TonyR
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by TonyR »

661-Pete wrote:Perhaps we should have hired bicycles (I have to chuckle though, at the thought of putting the suggestion to my colleagues!)


The Dutch have a programme for such people.

[youtube]AV68pPxr2hg[/youtube]
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661-Pete
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by 661-Pete »

To be honest there are worse things in the world than being caught up in congested traffic. Far far worse things. Remember the old limerick:
A novice was driving a car,
When, down Porlock, his son said "Papa,
"If you drive at this rate,
"We are bound to be late!
"Drive faster!" He did - and they are!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
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al_yrpal
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by al_yrpal »

reohn2 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:
Another point that's been brought up is the physical size of individual private vehicles and the subliminal sales pitch that bigger is better because bigger is safer,which is a self fulfilling prophecy,how big does a vehicle need to be to transport what for the most part is one person with occasional family use?
That's something in need of consideration on an already overcrowded road system,wouldn't you say?


I would agree about vehicle sizes, but what you do about it… . ? Lobby for a tax based on size? I think the majority have got contempt for big 4wds anyway.
Perhaps evolution isn't the right word but I am encouraged by a lot of what is changing around here. I didnt mention the Reading bike hire scheme, but that started recently, and our other big town, Oxford is literally cycle city.
As cyclists I think we can all try to get the message across without becoming preachy and tiresome. I watched the recent Parliamentry debate, the main thing that struck me was how lttle interest in it there was. When we wanted Bradley as BBC Sports Personality we achieved that easily. That shows the numbers are there. Now how to get them enthused to get a better transport network?


Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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Mick F
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by Mick F »

maxcherry wrote:People are idiots.
Nope.
I'm a "people" and so are you, and neither of us are idiots.

Some people are idiots, but not people generally.
Mick F. Cornwall
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al_yrpal
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by al_yrpal »

Mick F wrote:
maxcherry wrote:People are idiots.
Nope.
I'm a "people" and so are you, and neither of us are idiots.

Some people are idiots, but not people generally.


+1
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
maxcherry
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by maxcherry »

I stand by my statement that people are 'Idiots'

If we were not, than the world and people and environment would not be in the state it is in.
People feed into the situation as that is the way the situation has always been and nothing about it is
going to change, even after the human race has died off, the world will become a giant dustball (if it hasn't gone
bang by then)

Talk of a revolution when it is something that concerns the individual without looking at the bigger picture, is meaningless.
Ignoring the big picture, is idiotic as it will lead to nothing.

Would the masses prefer to cycle to work? No! and I don't blame them.

Life is full of choices.
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!
Psamathe
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by Psamathe »

al_yrpal wrote:I would agree about vehicle sizes, but what you do about it… . ? Lobby for a tax based on size? I think the majority have got contempt for big 4wds anyway.

Already discussed here but getting rid of Vehicle Excise Duty and putting the equivalent amount on as fuel tax would help. That way there would be increased pressure on those gas guzzlers to drive more gently and maybe for people to change to something that meets their transport needs rather than their egos.

Ian
reohn2
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by reohn2 »

I reckon people are clever idiots.
I see clever people being idiotic daily.
I see clever people voting for clever idiots.
I see clever idiots killing other clever idiots
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orangebiker
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Re: Is it time for radicalism?

Post by orangebiker »

On a point of economics, can anyone explain how the GDP/car thing works?

Using cars and paying for petrol/repairs etc is just one way of spending money that people already have. If they didn't drive a car they would presumably spend it on something else (eg. a bigger house/better food/more bikes....).

Or do you think that if people didn't spend money on cars they would save it up and therefore not be spending it at all?
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