Using cycle paths

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Vorpal
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Vorpal »

ukdodger wrote:What's surprised me in this thread is the total lack of public spiritedness among some cyclists. What's wrong for us apparently should not be allowed sums it up.



Public spriritedness is in contradiction to
ukdodger wrote:everyone cant be catered for.
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reohn2
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by reohn2 »

Bicycler wrote:
reohn2 wrote:IMO there's a difference between hillwalking and walking to the shops,the paths required are completely different.
Wheelchair users who wish to experience the countryside won't be able to get to the top of some of the peaks in say the Lakes,or other such highlands.
I think that's accepted to a large degree by them,and that some places aren't safe for wheelchair use.

Of course that's true. Though you would be surprised at the capabilities of modern off road mobility scooters and it is not just those with wheelchairs who struggle with things like stiles.

The principle regarding barriers is the same whether it is an urban ginnel, a moorland bridleway, a cycle path or a road. For any of us a route may be too long, too steep, too poorly surfaced or beyond our abilities and these are things we all have to take into account. However, a man-made barrier should not be the limiting factor which determines whether we may or not use the route.


I agree,I was generalising to make a point that seems obvious to some,but not others :wink:
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Tigerbiten »

My whole point is don't trust that I can get down an english cycle path.
I get to the start of one and look down it and think "Am I going to get down it or am I going to be stopped by a barrier/narrow point".
And because I don't trust them, I rarely use them.
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by reohn2 »

Tigerbiten wrote:My whole point is don't trust that I can get down an english cycle path.
I get to the start of one and look down it and think "Am I going to get down it or am I going to be stopped by a barrier/narrow point".
And because I don't trust them, I rarely use them.


Yes I got that,and think it's disgusting that you should have to think that way before considering using what is supposed to be cycle friendly infrastructure.Then to risk the possiblity of being shouted,gesticulated and abused by motorists for not using such bad provision just adds insult to injury!

Mistik-ka's experiences posted up thread infuriate me almost as much as they did him and his wife/stoker.
To think that someone spends money to fly from Canada to the UK for a cycling holiday to be met with this kind of shambolic infrastructure is disgraceful IMO.

Where's the CTC,Sustrans,BC and other cycling support groups in all this?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by [XAP]Bob »

And that's the key.

You can't rely on getting off cycle paths, particularly in a new area.

Therefore you can't use them...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Mistik-ka
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Mistik-ka »

[XAP]Bob wrote:You can't rely on getting off cycle paths, particularly in a new area. Therefore you can't use them...

Quite so. (Thanks, Bob, reohn2, and others; this topic has obviously struck a nerve with a number of people :evil: )

Trying to make the best of a bad situation, are there any on-line mapping sites which indicate the presence — if not the nature — of barriers on cycle paths? At the moment I'm reduced to using the street views in the Journey Planner on Cyclestreets.net to check for tandem traps where cycle paths intersect with google-mapped roads … a laborious process and not always satisfactory. (Should I post this as a separate thread? It is about using cycle paths, but is perhaps it's a bit of a diversion on an already-existing diversion … about diversions. :oops: )
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Tigerbiten »

[XAP]Bob wrote:And that's the key.
You can't rely on getting off cycle paths, particularly in a new area.
Therefore you can't use them...

It's not can't use them..
It's won't because there's to much uncertainty and/or hassle to use them.

I do use a few around the Northampton/Wellingborough/Kettering area, but it's only because I know them and they do make that part of the trip easier.
But there's a lot I don't because there's no advantage to using them, in a lot of cases it because staying on the road is both quicker and/or safer.
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meic
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by meic »

In the five years that I carried my daughter around in the trailer, I dont recall any barriers that I was allowed to go through that I couldnt go through but I did have some moments where I almost lost control or fell over. Also she sometimes got a face full of brambles because I couldnt reach her and the bike at the same time.

I was out on a CTC ride this weekend and somebody turned up on anICE trike and they had help lifting it over gates three times that I saw as there was no possibility of it getting through the barriers, without a handy cycle group he would have been unable to pass.

As a Sustrans Ranger I have always raised complaint about barriers, a bit of a personal hobbyhorse. My Coordinators always declare that they too have objected and the barriers are imposed by either private landowners (understandable) or the Council. The Council often cite the Police as declaring it a condition for getting consent for the path, I always ask how or why the Police have any say in this and the answer is along the lines of "that's how it is".

I have seen barriers "removed" and there is one gate between two public roads which is very awkward to open and even get an ordinary bike through and it is between two public roads which join up again in a few hundred meters, I always expect somebody to have lifted it when I get there but it is always still there. I guess because people can just take the A40 for those few hundred meters instead of using the gate to get on the smaller road the NCN route follows.
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thidwick
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by thidwick »

I really like some cycle paths. My regular commute to work (5.5miles) includes about 1.5 miles of cycle path which follows an old railway line, then cuts across fields. Well away from roads for most of the distance. Smooth tarmac too. I see all manner of wildlife: rabbits, mice/voles, deer, owls, raptors, fox, and (once) a badger. It is quiet, and the views are good. Favourite time of year is cycling at dawn or dusk.
I don't mind motorists sharing my roads sometimes - so long as they are careful and courteous- but I'm so pleased that they keep off my cycle track.
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gaz
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by gaz »

meic wrote:I have seen barriers "removed" ...

Image
Since removed more formally.

Shornemead Crossing NS317.jpg

That was a substantial metal framed barrier, in place for some years until it was attacked in September 2013 with an angle grinder. It took twelve months for the puny replacement to arrive, it hasn't lasted long.

The section of path through a SSSI opened up by the barrier's removal suffers motorcycle abuse. Such abuse also took place before but I have no doubt that it's absence makes it easier.

Vorpal's right though, that's a social issue and an enforcement issue.
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Postboxer
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Postboxer »

Chop the legs off the barriers, chop the legs off any motorcyclists causing a nuisance. Sorted. I'm fed up of having my life affected by filthy lowlife screbs. I think the police around here do have scramblers for chasing yobs on, I think probably for land near the Manchester Ship Canal, soon to be Port Salford.
I once trapped my sons arm in a barrier whilst he was in a child seat on the back and I was trying to negotiate my way through it, he stuck his arm out whilst I was looking at the bike, trapping his arm between his seat and the upright of the fencing, luckily it was only gently but it could have been much worse, barriers where I have to get off and lift or manoeuvre the bike whilst I have a child in a child seat are dangerous too, as the balance of the bike is wrong and I have less control of it if I'm not sat on it, getting him off and on at each barrier would be far too much of a hassle and dangerous too.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by [XAP]Bob »

I've had a QR Skewer snapped by the barriers on one path - I was going uphill, through a chicane, and didn't go wide enough (already went off the path) to get through the chicane cleanly and the corner of the trailer just caught on one of the barriers. The shock load was enough to snap the QR skewer and remove the skewer and hitch from the trike.

Had I just gone off road there is nothing at all to prevent just going round the fence, since it only exists on the path itself. Most of the cyclists I see simply go round the end (most are on MTB style bikes) and I've never seen any motorised abuse of the facility (which has no such barrier at the other end, and plenty of "fun" fields etc in the middle)

The barriers are a menace to some of those they aim to protect, prevent some of those accessing the facility at all and manifestly don't prevent the abuse of facilities which should be policed. If there is a speeding problem on a road we don't close it (although that's a great plan), we police the speed. If there is an HGV problem on an inappropriately small road we put up signs warning the drivers.

Antisocial behaviour from a minority shouldn't result in an antisocial response from authority.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Vorpal
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Vorpal »

Mistik-ka wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:You can't rely on getting off cycle paths, particularly in a new area. Therefore you can't use them...

Quite so. (Thanks, Bob, reohn2, and others; this topic has obviously struck a nerve with a number of people :evil: )

Trying to make the best of a bad situation, are there any on-line mapping sites which indicate the presence — if not the nature — of barriers on cycle paths? At the moment I'm reduced to using the street views in the Journey Planner on Cyclestreets.net to check for tandem traps where cycle paths intersect with google-mapped roads … a laborious process and not always satisfactory. (Should I post this as a separate thread? It is about using cycle paths, but is perhaps it's a bit of a diversion on an already-existing diversion … about diversions. :oops: )

You should probably post a new threads.

Cycle Streets and Sustrans are probably the best sources of information. They do mark barriers on some paths. However, not all barriers are indicated on thir maps. CycleStreets depends upon people reporting them to either CycleStreets or the open mapping that it is based upon. Sustrans has some, but not all barriers marked on their maps. If it's an NCN, the best thing to do is check the sustrans map(s), and contact the Ranger for the area(s), and ask if there are barriers that aren't marked on the maps. Otherwise, cycle paths are best avoided, as there is no guarantee that they will be useable with a touring tandem.

p.s. I like the term 'tandem traps'; it is very descriptive. I just wish we didn't need a term to describe them!
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
meic wrote:As a Sustrans Ranger I have always raised complaint about barriers, a bit of a personal hobbyhorse. My Coordinators always declare that they too have objected and the barriers are imposed by either private landowners (understandable) or the Council. The Council often cite the Police as declaring it a condition for getting consent for the path, I always ask how or why the Police have any say in this and the answer is along the lines of "that's how it is".

Interesting "meic" why would the police be getting involved here/ are council trying to steer you clear of the real reasons, my cynic mind says someone is making money by getting involved with making something thats not really wanted or needed by the real users.
Dig out the official line on the barriers, but you might bang your head on the glass first.....you probably know as we do that its just mates...........

My local council as all councils are quoting cut backs for deminishing services, so they close public toilets or just get the contractors who wallow around in new vans with expresso in hand and another mate to hold the keys even though the council admit that their relationship with the main contractor is "Frosty" :?
Or hand the stinking toilets to the local action volunteers, despite the leader of the council being sacked....he hangs on to his Moyoral powers and plants some more Palm Trees outside on the highway privately owned and made luxury penthouses....................
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gaz
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by gaz »

Vorpal wrote:... Sustrans are probably the best sources of information. They do mark barriers on some paths. ...

I wasn't sure so I just checked the barrier at Shornemead Crossing above.
Untitled.jpg

The barrier's location is marked with a little yellow dot and is referred to as an "access point". The same yellow dot is also applied to toucan crossings and sites where the NCN leaves a road to follow a path without any barrier at all. Sustrans mapping is clearly not a suitable way to find out about any barriers on the path.

In the specific case above the reference to Queens Farm Road is particularly misleading as the level crossing was closed some years ago. Access to the NCN from Queens Farm Road is impossible. I've reported it.
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